NCN Chat 8 Oct 95
How do we get there from here?

<ffunch@newciv.org> Well, maybe we should get started with the more 'official' meeting.

<cbwillis> did all the ncn subtopics hear about the chat?

<cbwillis> I thot of posting something on afrospirit, but didn't

<ffunch@newciv.org> I sent it out on the main list, so everybody should know.

<ffunch@newciv.org> A lot of people expressed interest.

<ffunch@newciv.org> But maybe they didn't figure out the technicalities.

<cbwillis> yes, let's get started

<ffunch@newciv.org> OK, the theme is "How do we get there from here?"

<bobhilt> if others had tech problems that I had, I would expect them to be
+reading the paper right about now... -end-

<bobhilt> where being a paradigm shift?

<ffunch@newciv.org> Somebody suggested we couldn't answer it without knowing where "there" is.

<cbwillis> and "here"

<ffunch@newciv.org> "Here" is I guess quite individual.

<bobhilt> where==there....

<ffunch@newciv.org> To some degree, yes.

<cbwillis> we might differentiate the general from the individual "here" and
+"there"

<bobhilt> Talking about vision

<ffunch@newciv.org> I believe a lot of people know there is somewhere they want to go, even if
+they aren't totally sure what exactly it is.

<cbwillis> so we end up with 4 points

<cbwillis> that's what I call the heart's desire emerging

<ffunch@newciv.org> Yes, I would like it to apply to everybody, even if we have individual
+differences.

<cbwillis> they need permission to be in dreamtime

<bobhilt> *WE* have some strong commonalities...  I think it's not something
+generally thot about or accepted, in U.S.A. at least...

<cbwillis> love of freedom for starters

<ffunch@newciv.org> I think our individual visions and activities add up in a big synergy, if we
+try not to have too many pre-written agendas for each other.
*** Signoff: Judy (Ping timeout)

<cbwillis> J will be back

<bobhilt> ff: yes.  we can if we will

<ffunch@newciv.org> I believe a lot of people have similar alues underneath it all.

<bobhilt> quick comment...

<bobhilt> relevant current event with a tie-in

<bobhilt> Boeing machinists are on strike as of thurs.

<bobhilt> They are worried about production going to 3w countries, reduced
+bennies, etc.

<bobhilt> This is the reality we've been talking about--easier production,
+etc.

<cbwillis> and an end to war, who wants to go to war in countries where you're
+doing major business

<ffunch@newciv.org> But I guess it isn't solved by too narrow and local a perspective.

<bobhilt> so that material goods can take more of a backround station rather
+than being at the forefront of everything.

<cbwillis> global business will be the end to war

<ffunch@newciv.org> If we're all working together and communicating war wouldn't make sense.

<bobhilt> I think economics is a major inhibitor of a new civilization

<ffunch@newciv.org> A different economics could make things work very differently.

<cbwillis> how is that bob?

<bobhilt> we have to have jobs, which are scarce, and other 'scarce' physical
+needs

<cbwillis> insiders are expecting another downturn in Silicon Valley in about
+2 yrs

<bobhilt> companies achieve economic autonomy, while individuals fight amongst
+themselves...

<ffunch@newciv.org> We need a way of emphasizing what we would like, rather than what we MUST do
+to live.

<ffunch@newciv.org> Make values more important than mere survival.

<bobhilt> OK. You and I can do that.  Tell it to someone who isn't feeling
+secure economically...

<ffunch@newciv.org> Well, that is a value too, of course.

<cbwillis> We don't HAVE to have jobs, I'd like to shift to a project
+mentality, but VERY well networked.

<ffunch@newciv.org> So, do we HAVE to make everybody secure first?

<cbwillis> As a values expert, you can't eat values.

<ffunch@newciv.org> Ha, right.

<bobhilt> That shift is upon us, CB.  But SECURITY is utmost in importance I
+think.
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<cbwillis> that's Project Mind's agenda, make everyone secure thru total
+abundance

<bobhilt> If people feel insecure, they cling to the past!

<ffunch@newciv.org> Hi again Judy.

<ffunch@newciv.org> Guess you disconnect if there is not enough activity or something?

<cbwillis> something about Ping?

<ffunch@newciv.org> I don't think we have to make everybody secure first.

<Judy> My server keeps dumping me out of this channel so if I disappear, it's
+not because I lost interest

<ffunch@newciv.org> We will have to work in imperfect conditions.

<ffunch@newciv.org> I didn't think so, Judy.

<cbwillis> J: we knew you'd be back

<bobhilt> ok...

<ffunch@newciv.org> We can't plan it linearly.

<cbwillis> We always have to work in imperfect conditions, there are absolutes
+in the physical universe

<ffunch@newciv.org> We can't wait for material security for everybody before we can relate
+meaningfully to eachother.

<cbwillis> BUT...there's the challenge, to get as close to manifesting
+perfection as possible

<cbwillis> There are NO absolutes, sorry

<cbwillis> in the phys univ

<ffunch@newciv.org> Yes, but it is aways a balance.

<cbwillis> ff: what do you see to be the preconditions, then

<ffunch@newciv.org> We can't get one polarity only, but we can strive for integration.

<cbwillis> ??

<ffunch@newciv.org> An understanding of a few simple values, such as tolerance, allowing each
+other to be different.

<bobhilt> OK.  Imperfect world.  How do we allay fear gradually as we make
+things work better in a new paradigm for people to "shift into"

<cbwillis> Yes, and there is a lot of move to honor diversity going on

<bobhilt> Screw tolerance!

<ffunch@newciv.org> It is not that one person has the right answer and somebody else doesn't. We
+need to have room for all views.

<cbwillis> bob, ??

<bobhilt> (sorry, that was my evil twin, skippy!)

<bobhilt> :-)

<ffunch@newciv.org> We need to learn individually that it doesn't have to be threatening that
+somebody else is different.

<bobhilt> ff: right...

<ffunch@newciv.org> Hey, what does your evil twin have to say?

<bobhilt> Just my sick sense of humor... go on.

<ffunch@newciv.org> I don't think the answer is just to be "good" and "nice". We need all
+aspects. But integrated, rather than polarized.

<bobhilt> AND practical!!!!!!!!!!

<ffunch@newciv.org> We have too many prewritten agendas about how things HAVE to be.

<bobhilt> 'REAL WORLD' changes, not just thinking about them and talking about
+them...

<cbwillis> unexamined agendas

<ffunch@newciv.org> YEs, real world changes. But working on them, rather than planning them for
+years first.

<ffunch@newciv.org> Yes, unexamined agendas is a problem.

<bobhilt> ff: good.
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<ffunch@newciv.org> Hi Kirby, good to see you!

<bobhilt> Kirby!  Long time!

<Kirby> Kirby here. Hi Flemming, all.

<cbwillis> hi kirby

<Judy> hi kirby

<ffunch@newciv.org> Do we need to agree in order to work together?

<Kirby> Have we been having fun yet?

<cbwillis> we need to have some agreements

<ffunch@newciv.org> YEs, getting into it.

<cbwillis> depending on the "work"

<Kirby> If IRC is an example, 'in order' is out of the question.

<ffunch@newciv.org> YEs, but what kind of agreements do we HAVE to have?

<Kirby> We can agree 'out of order'

<bobhilt> Q: Kirby, we talked a little about VanSant's geosphere project and
+GIS database.  Have you heard anything recently about that?

<ffunch@newciv.org> Right, things don't naturally happen in order.

<Kirby> No, and I don't have web pages for them (VS GS). GIS is a big topic
+these days.

<cbwillis> mutual respect for others as beings is a good starting point

<ffunch@newciv.org> I think we need to agree that we might disagree and that we can work
+together anyway.

<ffunch@newciv.org> Yes, mutual respect, tolerance, allowing each other a space to exist in.

<cbwillis> yes, agree to disagree, without jumping to conclusions about what
+that "means"

<Kirby> Work 'n play -- gotta keep the word 'play' respectable

<bobhilt> ff: that's a big step.  Harder to achieve than to say right there.

<ffunch@newciv.org> Yes, a playful attitude is important.

<bobhilt> everyone wants to be perceived as agreeable, and it's easy while
+people are doing things that you generally agree with...

<cbwillis> needs to be taught early by parents who themselves understand it,
+and understand the need to teach it, demonstrate it, talk about it

<ffunch@newciv.org> We need to gradually experience each other as safe, even when we disagree.

<Kirby> Play can also be a precursor to work, a try-out, dry-run, simulation
+if you will...

<ffunch@newciv.org> Seriousness is not very effective. Great things might get done with quite
+playful attitudes.

<cbwillis> play is integral to work, the curious, experimental spirit

<Kirby> Most big coordination activities (making movie, military ops) have
+rehearsal, exercise, practice...

<ffunch@newciv.org> When you do what you feel like doing and you enjoy it, work and play become
+integrated.

<ffunch@newciv.org> Is mutual tolerance enough to be able to work together meaningfully?

<cbwillis> and if you have work you don't enjoy, or a task, then the thing is
+to make some sort of game out of it

<bobhilt> Kirby: AND complex systems grow best when started as simple workable
+systems.  Complex systems started out as complex systems don't seem to work
+very well...

<cbwillis> you need a common purpose that has energy

<ffunch@newciv.org> Is a general vision of a new civilization common and clear enough?

<ffunch@newciv.org> Does it need to be more specific?

<cbwillis> too abstract for most people, they would have trouble getting a
+handle on it, or their programming would kick in and they might say it's not
+possible

<Kirby> Re complex systems: of course all work is in the context of everything
+that already is (complex, that is)

<bobhilt> what are we talking about here, tolerance, freedom from scarcity,
+freedom to pursue personal growth, etc.?

<ffunch@newciv.org> How do we make it more clear, without over-defining and limiting it?

<cbwillis> for the abstract thinkers, the big picture is always there

<ffunch@newciv.org> But it might be hard to convey to non-abstract thinkers.

<Kirby> Science fiction is our culture's attempt to 'make the future (e.g.
+newciv) clear'

<cbwillis> for most people the attention is on the immediate project or task,
+and the purpose for it

<cbwillis> and whether they feel emotionally engaged with it

<ffunch@newciv.org> How do we connect it up with a big general future.

<Kirby> Most near-term scifi is dark, far term scifi bright
* Kirby overgenerializes

<bobhilt> cb: disagree somewhat.  MUCH attention is stuck on basic survival
+right now.  I'd like to try to get past that a bit...

<ffunch@newciv.org> Maybe people just need to be emotionally engaged in something they feel
+makes a difference, right now.

<bobhilt> cb:  I just re-read what you said.

<ffunch@newciv.org> What if people could survive by doing something that they actually feel
+makes a difference.

<bobhilt> cb: I think we sorta said the same thing...

<cbwillis> the abstract thinkers can just say, after the immediate
+project/task/purpose/emotions are in gear, and this is important because it
+fits in _here_... directing the attention to the big picture for a moment. 
+Plants a seed in consciousness but doesn't

<cbwillis> belabor the point

<bobhilt> ff: YES!

<bobhilt> ff:  I think THAT is the crux, the holy grail of new civ...

<ffunch@newciv.org> If creating a new civilization helped people survive better right NOW, we
+have it made.

<ffunch@newciv.org> Rather than just being something extra to do after work.

<bobhilt> ff: agreed, fully.

<cbwillis> and continually enhancing the definition of survive toward flourish

<ffunch@newciv.org> Any ideas how?

<ffunch@newciv.org> Starting new civ businesses?

<cbwillis> I'm part of the transformational business consultants movement

<bobhilt> I look at the newciv job board sometimes.  But for now, it doesn't
+pay the ConEd...

<ffunch@newciv.org> Do we need to integrate business and idealistic vision?

<cbwillis> and much of my focus is alignment of practiced values with espoused
+values, integrity in other words

<cbwillis> most companies have mission statements and ethics guidelines

<cbwillis> and values, and and and

<Kirby> .. or as consumers with dollar votes, encourage businesses we buy from
+to so integrate

<Judy> maybe it's not a matter of creating new businesses, but transforming
+what already exists

<ffunch@newciv.org> I personally have a bit of a block in how to make immediate business sense
+out of what I am doing.

<cbwillis> but the big complaint among employees its all PR and they don't
+practice what they preach

<ffunch@newciv.org> Ah yes, transforming what is already there, rather than necessarily starting
+all over from scratch.

<cbwillis> what are you doing, ff?

<Judy> big business might be impossible, but what about starting with small
+businesses?

<cbwillis> if we can't transform what's already here, what kind of magicians
+and wizards are we anyhow?

<ffunch@newciv.org> I make most of my money from writing computer programs, some from doing
+sessions, and none from doing new civ. At least next to none.

<cbwillis> you could set new civ up as a nonprofit 50lc3, and I bet many would
+donate to it, and you could also provide some services thru there, networking
+services for example

<ffunch@newciv.org> I guess we need to look for how it makes sense to work on creating our
+visions right NOW in our daily lives.

<cbwillis> you've already got the best thing of its kind going

<bobhilt> U.S. question:  The I.R.S. wants a 30% chunk.  Some interactive
+exchange systems have been able to bypass this.  I see IRS as a problem for
+NCN.  You?

<cbwillis> so build on it

<ffunch@newciv.org> I don't like setting NCN up in an IRS category, even though I can see it
+would make it easier to donate to it.

<cbwillis> 30 is only on profits.  Most companies buy stuff at the end of the
+year to offset that, spend down your reserves a bit and get ready to expand
+next year

<ffunch@newciv.org> I'd rather stay completely away from the IRS.

<cbwillis> 50lc3 fits people's pictures

<cbwillis> just an idea. we have many friends who have started them, some very
+successful

<bobhilt> ff: woodenweall

<bobhilt> GeoSphere is a for-profit corp.  Doing ok, as I understand it.

<cbwillis> I think ncn needs to work somehow on overcoming underlying apathy
+on the planet and among ourselves!

<ffunch@newciv.org> Anyway, maybe NCN shouldn't be making money in itself, but I sure think the
+members should be able to do newciv businesswise.

<cbwillis> sure!

<bobhilt> time-money is getting more and more mainstream press...

<cbwillis> quality networking where people really deepen relationships, take
+off the layers and really trust each other is a very rare thing and worth
+cultivating at all costs

<ffunch@newciv.org> NCN takes relatively little expense in itself. More important is that each
+of us need to be able to eat and have a place to live.

<cbwillis> that's what everyone says

<Kirby> problem with 'newciv' idea is usually its up to historians to draw
+lines in retro and say 'New Era' starts here. We'll all have been dead for
+100 years.

<ffunch@newciv.org> NCN is luckily very little dependent on money. So, it won't go out of
+business for economic reasons.

<Kirby> Self-proclaiming 'newciv' has been done many times, but usually
+self-proclaimers don't get credibility for saying so

<cbwillis> because of where people are at personally I see little willingness
+to "deep network" for life

<bobhilt> ff: Don't drop that idea

<ffunch@newciv.org> I guess it makes a difference what we DO, more than what we proclaim.

<cbwillis> good point K, utopians

<bobhilt> ff: I think there's a valuable seed there for other enterprises too

<cbwillis> we have to start from where people ARE, which is the topic today!

<ffunch@newciv.org> Is there something in NCN that is directly translatable to being exported to
+businesses in general?

<cbwillis> big picture thinking

<bobhilt> ff: yes

<cbwillis> purpose

<cbwillis> coordinated networking

<Kirby> Wondering if from a marketing view, embedding NewCiv is optional,
+focus should be on desired future whether we agree its a 'new civ' or not
+(leaving that to historians)

<cbwillis> worldwide email networking

<cbwillis> yes, desired future

<ffunch@newciv.org> It makes business sense, at least PR-wise, to be positioned as working for a
+better world.

<cbwillis> collective dreamtime

<cbwillis> it needs to be very practically oriented

<Kirby> Aesthetics all-important. Every dream of the future has a look 'n
+feel.

<bobhilt> ff: it's on the internet.  It's virtual.  There's virtually ZERO
+cost to exist.  Others can and are taking advantage of similar properties

<Kirby> Aesthetics also key to defining market niche, standing out in the
+jungle as color-coordinated new kid on the block

<cbwillis> I think ncn has done well on online aesthetics so far

<ffunch@newciv.org> Kirby, right. Doesn't matter what we call it. It is working, networking for
+a desired common, but open, future.

<bobhilt> K: That's the storyboard idea?

<cbwillis> the vision develops more as we go

<Kirby> Projecting future requires storyboarding (how they make commercials)

<cbwillis> define storyboarding?

<Kirby> I imagine 'newciv' commercials on TV and ask myself: how will they
+look?

<bobhilt> Storyboarding: Show the vision as reality...

<Kirby> Storyboarding in simple form is like a comic strip: sketch book of
+action shots before actual filming

<cbwillis> I like the saab commercial on PBS, "find your own road" with a
+catchy tune and bright colors

<ffunch@newciv.org> I guess we need more artifacts, something people can connect with and use,
+and own.

<bobhilt> people own web browsers...

<ffunch@newciv.org> Can one make commercials for a vision and for networking, or do we need more
+tangible things or services to give people?

<cbwillis> again, I think there is an underlying apathy to be overcome.

<bobhilt> what VALUE can we offer people by WWW?

<cbwillis> Where is the JUICE?

<bobhilt> potential project here?  What about people-networking as a
+product?!?

<cbwillis> could we do more with the ncn network database?

<ffunch@newciv.org> If we had a network that linked people up in ways that immediately
+translated into better survival (business?) while creating a better future,
+that could work.

<cbwillis> yes, most people need business

<ffunch@newciv.org> Connecing people up, creating synergy.

<bobhilt> Picture: Skills database, needs database, resources database, status
+database...

<cbwillis> most independents out there just need more work

<cbwillis> whatever field they're in

<ffunch@newciv.org> To make it attractive for the general public it needs to give tangible
+benefits in their daily lives.

<ffunch@newciv.org> Creating work, connecting it up with income.

<cbwillis> building in quality and vision from there

<ffunch@newciv.org> An exchange-of-value network.

<cbwillis> perfect USP!!!

<bobhilt> WHO 
<resources> can help me LEARN 
<synergy> how to Login my
+application to a NetWare server 
<Need>

<ffunch@newciv.org> USP?

<cbwillis> universal selling proposition 

<cbwillis> phrase that speaks to the unconscious of your target market

<ffunch@newciv.org> Enabling information, connections.

<bobhilt> ff: yes..

<cbwillis> everyone is looking for the right connections, business/personal

<ffunch@newciv.org> Networked values. Quality of Life network.

<ffunch@newciv.org> Providing connections that something actually comes of.

<cbwillis> ff: you are a networker par excellence, next-level partnering, a
+matchmaker of sorts (anyone have any Libra here??)

<Kirby> Look 'n feel: focus of aesthetics these days is 'the screen'
+(computer, TV etc) which comes with sound, but not much smell (except
+coffee)...

<ffunch@newciv.org> I'm a Libra, yes.

<cbwillis> yes yes

<cbwillis> partnering, connecting people is the thing

<cbwillis> and doing it aethetically

<Kirby> newciv dating service? is that what we're talkin'?

<ffunch@newciv.org> Connecting up with an increasingly synergetic world.

<cbwillis> cool

<cbwillis> QUALITY connections are hard to find

<bobhilt> Not dating service perhaps as much as Yellow Pages...

<cbwillis> Then we have to define quality

<ffunch@newciv.org> Newciv business partner networking, that anybody can take part in.

<ffunch@newciv.org> I think everybody agrees that 'quality' is good. Probably better not to
+over-define it.

<cbwillis> then we can get into the next layer down, which is revolutionizing
+agreements, agreements that work, whether formal or infomral

<Kirby> People looking at this network 'from the outside' (presuming an inside
+exists): what do they see?"

<ffunch@newciv.org> How to make agreements that work.

<Kirby> what do they see?

<cbwillis> how many times has a connection gone sour because of assumptions
+made but not formally addresed or agreed on

<bobhilt> cb: good point.  It works well in small groups, but when you get
+bigger groups... breaks down.

<ffunch@newciv.org> Success, enjoyment, aesthetics, survival.

<cbwillis> yes, how to make agreements that work

<cbwillis> can break down in 2 people, often does!!!!

<ffunch@newciv.org> Forging links, helping people connect and agree and work together.
* Kirby reboots IRC to clear up interface problem

<cbwillis> perfect 
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* Kirby is back

<bobhilt> OK: Point 1. Interactive networking database capability; Point 2.
+Enabling methodology (technology) to allow the network to functin.

<ffunch@newciv.org> What component parts do we have in making it work?

<cbwillis> we already have a db of fascinating people, who are mostly shining
+other on

<ffunch@newciv.org> Networking principles, learning organizations.

<bobhilt> Point 1: Big job

<ffunch@newciv.org> Resourceful people.

<bobhilt> point 2: don't know, not my expertise...

<cbwillis> you lead a horse to water...

<cbwillis> this is my point about tech to overcome underlying apathy

<Kirby> Web pages which typify shared aesthetics, from which we download
+graphics, glyphs to embed locally, showing our partially overlapping
+affiliation with one another

<bobhilt> cb: and he'll drink if it's easy and fills his need...

<ffunch@newciv.org> Overcoming apathy is a PR problem, aesthetics, making it look good and
+attractive to do something different.

<Kirby> Web pages which storyboard the future...

<ffunch@newciv.org> The web naturally leads to aesthetics.

<cbwillis> but to sustain past the initial interest overcoming underlying
+apathy needs to be constantly monitored and addressed

<cbwillis> my experience in working with anything remotely similar

<ffunch@newciv.org> We need to show, in numbers, that it actually works.

<Kirby> Lots of old sci fi about the future (i.e. now) have obsolete
+aesthetics... problem with technology and how to view it (part of nature, or
+against nature)

<ffunch@newciv.org> How do we measure synergy and effective connections?

<Kirby> number of web page hits?

<cbwillis> people participate and say I love it, and it works!

<cbwillis> and invite their friends

<ffunch@newciv.org> Web page hits show interest, but not how much it actually enables people.

<bobhilt> and get people to put up links to it.

<cbwillis> there are various stats on different "levels" that could be used

<cbwillis> sustainability and growth are needed

<ffunch@newciv.org> Is there a measure for quality of life?

<cbwillis> people's conversation about it when asked an open ended question

<bobhilt> Thought: new meta-tool to create and tie in your database exporting
+your area of expertise...

<cbwillis> "How was it for you?"

<cbwillis> "How is it for you?" sort of thing

<bobhilt> HTML and WWW are meta-tools

<ffunch@newciv.org> Surveys. People rating their activities and connections.

<ffunch@newciv.org> Satisfaction rating.

<bobhilt> We could have some sort of DATABASE and NETWORKING meta=tool that
+will allow people to interact

<cbwillis> yes, prompting them in certain categories, leaving it open ended in
+others.  Personal conversations tend to elicit more data, so a certain
+percentage of personal contacts could be used to expand the pic

<bobhilt> ...and build around their areas of influence...

<ffunch@newciv.org> Food for thought.

<bobhilt> Don't build the system! Build and disseminate the TOOLS to build the
+system!

<cbwillis> hey....

<ffunch@newciv.org> Enabling tools. Show people the results. Connect them up.

<cbwillis> really get the system so it works

<bobhilt> This allows for a geometric expansion of effort

<cbwillis> that has been the fallacy of similar things in the past

<ffunch@newciv.org> We've gone about an hour. I feel we've gotten somewhere.

<cbwillis> not just so it sounds good then doesn't work.

<cbwillis> People feel betrayed from stuff like that.

<bobhilt> and allows a geometric expansion of interconnectedness...

<cbwillis> We've got to design a system that obviates betrayal if possible?

<ffunch@newciv.org> It has to actually work, even when looking deeply into it.

<ffunch@newciv.org> Open communication tends to bring honesty with it, in a certain way.

<ffunch@newciv.org> The Internet is to some degree an anti-dishonesty device.

<cbwillis> yes.

<cbwillis> MLM is an example of a betrayal machine, sounds great, and doesn't
+work for 99% of people.  

<ffunch@newciv.org> Right. 

<cbwillis> We need to find a new way, blaze new trails that WORK!

<ffunch@newciv.org> It should look and feel good, also after you've been doing it, and without
+continuous pep talks.

<ffunch@newciv.org> Alright with you if we end shortly?

<cbwillis> overcome underlying apathy, not pump people up with artificial rah
+rah

<cbwillis> ok

<Kirby> I advocate using General Systems Theory to compete with economics,
+saying 'hey, monopoly is unhealthy so you econ folks are gonna get some
+competition'.

<bobhilt> so... we create tools to create an interactive network
+skills/resources/needs/status database...

<Kirby> The so-called 'dismal science' needs to be given a run for its
+money...

<ffunch@newciv.org> YEs, competition to monopoly, that's good.

<bobhilt> then we create or figure out how to keep it working for everyone?

<Judy> fine to end this shortly.  let's do this again soon

<ffunch@newciv.org> Should we do this every week, or is that too often?

<cbwillis> Good Meeting!

<cbwillis> Why not take it a week at a time for starters?

<bobhilt> I can stick around if anyone wants to...

<Judy> every week is fine with me

<cbwillis> me too

<Kirby> Focus: academia (ivory tower) should feel responsible for the world
+not working (not politicians). If it don't work, lets fix the curriculum, not
+the political 'platform'

<ffunch@newciv.org> OK, so we'll do it next week too.

<Judy> same time?

<Kirby> Same bat time, same bat channel...

<ffunch@newciv.org> I need to take a look at how this time was for everybody. For some people,
+like in Hawaii, it wasn't so good.

<cbwillis> this time is good, and it's early evening in europe

<cbwillis> HI has the worst time

<Kirby> If it snowballs, multiple times, even multiple channels

<ffunch@newciv.org> But for now, let's assume same time, unless I send out a message about
+something else.

<ffunch@newciv.org> OK, great meeting, thank you all for coming!
*** Signoff: Judy ()

<cbwillis> bob, wanta chat?

<Kirby> Thank you Flemming. Good job all.

<bobhilt> why not leave the channel open, with a bigger name
*** Signoff: Kirby (Kirby)

<ffunch@newciv.org> It's my son's birthday, so I need to go and attend his breakfast table.

<cbwillis> Ok, thanks Flemming!

<bobhilt> ok.. see ya.  Yes, cb...

<ffunch@newciv.org> I thought about making it more permanent. Or making a web chat channel.

<ffunch@newciv.org> But anyway, lets talk later, gotta go.

<cbwillis> bye...
#ncn> /exit