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New Civilization News: The Map of Outcomes: Where are YOU in the rat-race? |
Category: Systems Thinking 27 comments 30 Jun 2007 @ 01:00 by Ed Dawson @71.118.49.225 : !!!!!!!!!!Holy cow!!!!! 30 Jun 2007 @ 01:11 by daruba @69.158.19.233 : cooool! very cool i wonder if there's similar action across other triangles. KRC for example -daruba 30 Jun 2007 @ 04:37 by roy vinner @71.85.145.213 : comments This is great and very revealing. My only question is about the format of the diagram, where edges represent poles and vertices represent combinations of actions of two poles. Edges commonly represent flows between two vertices, so to make a dual graph (to map vertices into edges and vice versa) would be more "reasonable". 30 Jun 2007 @ 05:51 by Ed Dawson @71.118.49.225 : I was wondering I was wondering if these form a decay scale of Terminals (GPM beingnesses), but irrespective of the actual goals? Max, could you have found another decay scale; and if so, what would be the sequence? cheers Ed 30 Jun 2007 @ 10:30 by dario @82.48.80.22 : odu cool! this is a perfect way to explain what is an odu-ifa... each odu is a different way to manifests those expansions of the triangle. how to do and how to have or how to don't and how to haven't... example: having and doing -> winning each odu explain the way how to get the winning... 30 Jun 2007 @ 15:34 by Ed Dawson @71.118.49.225 : an odu acting through the triangle When an odu manifests through be-do-have, it is called an "actual goal". This is not usually the odu ori (life odu). Ifa finds one of these and usually labels it a "path". So in my personal case, my life odu is one thing that acts as an overlay influencing everything around me, but I also have a path odu which I am attempting to be-do-have, or more specifically, I am having and doing more than being, so I am winning at the game of okanran'fun. Which brings up another matter I don't see Max mentioning above: the ideal state. The ideal state is a perfectly balanced expression of be and do and have - ALL THREE. cheers Ed 30 Jun 2007 @ 16:40 by mx @201.26.108.248 : scales within I didn't comment on the properties of those triangles in general. Will quote some (translated) Nordenholz stuff soon. LRH commented on that too in the same sense. In short, a triangle of that kind is always equal-sided in a state of equilibrium and there are limits as to what amount ONE side can distort before the other ones contract too. The equilibrium is always achieved after some delay. In other words: one corner kept stable, the other ones will adjust with a delay in time. Roy, the scales are within the vertices which are the extreme points (polarizations). The actual situation of a person is a triangle within that general triangle. Dario: remember, that a 'real Odu' manifests as two Odus crossed. For a three-D version, the famous fourth pole is missing in this model to make it a tetrahedron. But that is true for all such models. One could postulate for such a basic triad that the OBSERVER is the fourth point and Nordenholz indicates that (even though in his typical convoluted way of Hegelian lingo). 30 Jun 2007 @ 20:05 by Ed Dawson @71.118.49.225 : two odus crossed This is something Aaron and I have been playing with lately: an odu can be stated in either direction, because the outside and inside energies can swap depending on their application. Example: Ogbe'tura is a wonderful odu to get in a reading about circumstances, but to be born with it as a life odu can be a nightmare. Otura'gbe as a normal reading is often a bad indicator (especially coming with ibi), but it is a wonderful life odu. Why are these so? Because otura'gbe in a reading of circumstances is the SAME emotionally overwhelming energy as ogbe'tura as a life odu. And ogbe'tura in a circumstances reading is the same steady, loving presence as otura'gbe as a life odu. I assume this was what you meant by "two odus crossed"? cheers Ed 30 Jun 2007 @ 21:35 by mx @201.27.228.75 : crossing... Ed, I meant the virtual cross of two polarities, in space the vertices of a tetrahedron. We saw it together the first time in a SkyWork at Flemming's house, I believe. But let's avoid getting in discussion of Odus here, in order to expand more on the classic be/do/have triad. Or, if at all, if the triad would be expanded to a tetra, I am CERTAIN we would see that the progression phenomena are SIMILAR to the Odu wheels (only that the latter are clockwise due to its current listing). 30 Jun 2007 @ 22:53 by Ed Dawson @71.118.49.225 : formation of triangles What I've seen is that a triangle is a polarity with a single-orientation gradient item inserted between the poles. For example, the ARC triangle is the polarity otura-irete. The "R" of Reality should actually stand for Agreement, which is irete as seen from the perspective of Affinity (otura). From that perspective, the negative pole of irete would appear to be the positive pole. And Communication is the mediating gradient between the two. But the problem with ARC is that it is only viewed by us through the lens of otura. This gives a partial view, only permitting the gradient between the two poles to be seen as a result of affinity. This leaves a second gradient unobserved. If the triangle is viewed from the other end (from irete), then the triangle becomes: freedom (irete) hate or disaffinity (otura as independence?) and a different gradient. But what is the gradient? If I look at freedom and hate as items, I immediately get a creepy reminder of Geo. Bush's rhetoric! Is this the triangle of WAR? But still, what is the gradient item? What links freedom and hate? The only answer I get is "service facsimiles"! Help! what goes in here? cheers Ed 30 Jun 2007 @ 22:55 by Ed Dawson @71.118.49.225 : ...and furthermore Oh I forgot to mention: If you take the two poles, and both gradients (one is each orientation), you get a tetrahedron. cheers Ed 1 Jul 2007 @ 01:55 by Ed Dawson @71.118.49.225 : more I got an answer from fill-void. He suggested "particulation", which isn't quite exact, but poited me in the right direction: Curious thing about otura/irete: Otura treats everything as wave; irete treats everything as particle. Otura acts through emotion. And emotion has various smooth gradients of tone and volume. But irete acts through attachments and detachments. Irete works like an on/off switch; these are like particles, quanta. Come to think of it, so does an ARCx. Therefore an ARCx is the affinity side triangle responding like the irete side triangle. Holy cow, an ARCx is the triangle flipping to the opposite direction triangle. So, we have a new triangle, hidden behind our well known ARC triangle: freedom-hate-detachments The War triangle. It is a black triangle, a "shadow" triangle, a three-part function opposite the other three part of ARC, and the two together form a square or cross structure: ----communication---- otura-------------irete -----detachment------ Holy cow! :)))) cheers Ed 1 Jul 2007 @ 02:56 by jerryvest : Winning and Losing are dichotomies that don't have much to do with our true nature. Who are we in competition with? Who is in competition with us? I don't get it? For example, seems to me that all of the winners become losers and all the losers are winners in the process of learning. I believe that we can improve the observation or scenario by examining the movement and balance of opposites or poles. Change is invisible and takes place in the balance point or equilibrium in Trialectics. In other words,as Ichazo desribes ("Between Metaphysics and Protoanalysis")--there is always an active, attractive, function/equilibrium/balance and result. The dichotomies are apparent contradictions, however, Ichazo describes the change that takes place in the mineral kingdom. The waves are not in competition with rocks or boulders. He gives this as an example: The waves of the ocean are active, the rocks are attractive, grinding(invisible) is the function, sand/minerals are the result. Anyway, it would be great if we could instinctually know or see the consequencces or results by taking the "Right Action" with all that we do. Becoming mindful and conscious beings with this profound awarenss, we would not be so aggressive, competitive, war like, greedy, selfish, etc. On the other hand, we could be grateful for the world and all of our inhabitants for bringing us to this recognition or realization. Max, thanks for allowing me to think about these dichotomies and to review my understanding of "Trialectics" and reason. 1 Jul 2007 @ 03:09 by mx @201.1.194.3 : The Lie within the 'Law of Attraction' The Affinity (Otura) part is REPELLING what is DESIRED, the Reality (Irete) part attaches to what is 'REAL' to the person. What comes into 'being' is what is perceived as reality, not what is desired. Thus, the Law of Attraction works only if the emotions are minimzed and the reality level maximized. Therefore, going into a Ferrari showroom and talking to the vendors increases the reality level and therefore the chance of having one (who wants one, really, btw?), but 'desiring' a Ferrari is NOT. In short, what materializes things without fail is, for example, Ogbe-yonu (..Ogunda), or 'suuru', often translated as equanimity or patience. Entering Otura in this picture ruins the day, hehe... 1 Jul 2007 @ 03:17 by mx @201.1.194.3 : Trialectics Thanks, Jerry, for throwing in the keyword trialectics (even though as a word it's kind of a drag). Not new as an approach but definitely superior to the Dialectics of the past, pun intended. Nordenholz, in his largely unnoticed seminal work 'Scientologie', published in 1934 in Germany, introduced 'Mediation' as the third 'axiom' beyond the dialectics of Hegel, establishing 'trialectics' in modern occidental philosophy. And, GRATEFULNESS is the only certain way of being HAPPY, as far as I have seen... 1 Jul 2007 @ 04:50 by jerryvest : Thanks, MX...you are way beyond my understanding of the third 'axiom'. Please tell me more about mediation as the balancing point or equilibrium. Isn't mediation an application or action? Did you mean "meditation?" or Awareness? or Consciousness? 1 Jul 2007 @ 13:40 by mx @201.13.95.123 : mediation is the way of resolving a conflict, opposition, or a polarity in general. Dialectics without 'Mediation' of it's extremes wouldn't work. 1 Jul 2007 @ 14:18 by jerryvest : Yes, I see what you mean, but does this fit with trialectics? As I understand this form of reasoning, the change is invisible so there is nothing to negotiate or resolve in a meta-physical analysis. I found this link on Trialectics by Tomislav Budak that is helpful to me as I attempt to understand and discuss reason. In this article he discusses Ichazo's theory of the Levels of Consciousness that I find interesting. {link:http://www.tomislavbudak.com/trialectics.htm} What do you think about this logic? 1 Jul 2007 @ 21:04 by mx @201.1.8.80 : trialectics haven't look at that too closely yet... 3 Jul 2007 @ 00:54 by ming : do-be-do-be-doo to quote Frank Sinatra. Excellent chart. Sure opens up some new understandings. 5 Jul 2007 @ 17:07 by Horacio @200.123.143.11 : probably related / 4 triangles 2 stars excuse my english i forward this as saw some linked posts from here in t4r group and it could be related. best wishes horacio ----- Original Message ----- From: "tramitesdns" To: Sent: Thursday, July 05, 2007 1:52 PM Subject: 4 triangles 2 stars > Just remembered few old hand notes wich might relate to recent discusions. > Between any 2 corners of a triangle there is the other 3rd mediating corner. > And each mediating corner generates a smaller, relativer "counter pole" > outside the triangle in its opposite direction, thus forming a new relativer > triangle and so on. (see bellow) > Between 2 corners of a triangle happens a mixing gradient of both extremes. > The bigger the triangle the less compressed the emanations of its corners > and the more diferenciable its gradients. > But the corners always remain intact, pure, absolute, infinite as each one > could be defined as the cero point of all other absolutes. > > Example > > Truth corner Life corner > 8-Truth gradient scale 0-Truth > 0-Life gradient scale 8-Life > > *lower mixed scales level > > ------------------------------------- > > Read clockwise from do: > > be > > > GIVE RECEIVE > > > have do > > CREATE > > > Notice for example that one can seem to be busy but really Doing (creating) > nothing valuable, wich was called dev-t in snc. > Once real creating is achieved then one can Have something valuable to Give > and even Have stock as future reserves, etc. > Once something valuable is Given to others then they grant/asign Beingness > in feedback. > Note that seems beingness can only be granted by others, not really asumed > by oneself, as in such a case it would form gpm by trying to do and have > something just to be someone be=do+have. > Onece beingness is granted they come back for more exchange of the same type > of creations. > With the exchange one receives one can Do and Create more stuff for further > exchange. > > ------------------------------------- > > Today spoted this one on the godhood triangle: > > ABS TRUTH > > > affinity com > (rel love) (rel life) > > > ABS LIFE ABS LOVE, theta, energy > *SPACE, FREEDOM > > reality > (creation / relative truth / > agreement / apparency) > tone 26 > > > > Noticed that > Com (rel life) is half alive/half death > half survive/half sucumb > half flowing/half still, stoped > half truth/half reality, particle, creation. > Also definable as not-abs vibration(life) / not-abs particle(reality) > And any com cycle seems to follow the start-change-stop sequence and surelly > the dcei scale. > > Reality (rel truth / agreement / creation / apparency) > is half splited/half joined > half separated/half linked > separated but keept close? > > Affinity (rel love) is half free/hald attached > Also definable as not-abs space/not-abs love,theta,energy,etc. > Also affinity seems a triangle linking abs love + abs space + abs freedom > > On the other hand Abs Life would be Everything as a Whole, vibrating, > flowing, alive Body. > In relation to its relativized counter pole "Comunication", anything at any > level could be viewed as a body, as a particle and the fact that it is > flowing and vibrating inside the whole shows it is comunicating something > and relativelly alive. > > ------------------------------------- > > This 6 corners arrangement also seems to have some relation to axis xyz of > 3rd dimension , body brains, energy centers, etc. For example I heard that > one hand is supposed to give energy and the other hand receive energy, that > would form the horizontal axis, but creation seems to have a relation to the > base or bottom, thus forming one of the triangles. Some time ago I had a > experience of activating the heart center and making a strong flow of energy > enter through one hand and come out throught the other one. > There seems to be also the vertical axis of beingness and truth at the top > and creation and apparent reality from base. > Also a front back axis of viewing and admiration outflow forward and love > and anchoring coming from back, ancestors, etc > > Horacio > 5 Jul 2007 @ 17:13 by horacio @200.123.143.11 : previous post sorry, previous post messed triangles with text didnt worked. it was 4 triangles - 2 stars do / create / have / give / be / receive truth / com / love / reality / life / afinity horacio 29 Aug 2010 @ 02:55 by Aimee @74.131.39.23 : Obge Tura-Life Path Reading Hi- I received the Ogbe Tura for my life path. I am trying to find out more information about what that means. I am awaiting a consultation from the Babalawo to go over my reading but just trying to find out before. Can someone help me out with this. 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29 Jun 2007 @ 22:39, by Max Sandor