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New Civilization News: NCN Gold |
Category: Systems Thinking 75 comments 20 Mar 2006 @ 21:54 by bushman : HmmId like to see us pull CO2 from the air with solar and wind, and then store it, and use it to power cars and stuff. Im going to write something in my log about the idea and how it can be done with existing equipment. :} 21 Mar 2006 @ 01:51 by scotty : B I really admire you for wanting to share in creating a new civilisation and I really hope that you will find the people to put the energy into it . Personally my 'new' civilisation is one where each human being awakens to the fact that we are interconnected and that what's good for one is good for all - I believe that mankind is begining to waken up and people will start working toward unification ... for me it has to come from the heart .. and in such a case money (gold) won't be a factor :) Good luck with your project 21 Mar 2006 @ 14:35 by nraye @80.176.105.234 : Adding to yours In the mind’s eye NCN is likened to a particular window on the world. Or rather windows, as many as the individual units allow and not the single entity of its sometimes’ claim. The window frame was first employed (designed) by the Venetians. They used it as a continuation of the building design in detail, to enhance or individualise pictorial contents of the owner. The Venetians can be said to be foremost amongst historical peoples in thinking up money making schemes as a means of island survival, the picture frame being one of many. (There is a current book on the survival tactics of Venice, another being when really out of pocket to offer residence to European Jews in order to attract their capital, the place given over to them was already named the Ghetto). Who’s to say if these views are prejudicial in any way? 22 Mar 2006 @ 18:13 by b : Exigency calls forth many solutions. Anyone can be a member of NCN and anyone can participate in developing a new civ model community. Someone also could design the community layout or buildings, homes, multidwelling, the resivoir, airfield, power generation areas and windmill areas, etc. An architect perhaps or just someone with artistic skills and imagination? 23 Mar 2006 @ 14:19 by nraye @80.176.105.234 : Have to be S w a n n y then! phew 24 Mar 2006 @ 11:45 by b : Ha ha " Companions the creator seeks, not corpses, not herds and believers. Fellow creators the creator seeks--those who write new values on new tablets. Companions the creator seeks, and fellow harvesters; for everything about him is ripe for the harvest. --Friedrich Nietzsche, "Thus Spoke Zarathustra 24 Mar 2006 @ 14:59 by swanny : Phew 23 Mar 2006 @ 14:19 by nraye @80.176.105.234 : Have to be S w a n n y then! phew Nraye ------ phew (fyū) pronunciation interj. Used to express relief, fatigue, surprise, or disgust. ----- Wow... I didn't realize I was regarded so "highly". Phew to you to. ------ 24 Mar 2006 @ 11:45 by b : Ha ha " Companions the creator seeks, not corpses, not herds and believers. Fellow creators the creator seeks--those who write new values on new tablets. Companions the creator seeks, and fellow harvesters; for everything about him is ripe for the harvest. --Friedrich Nietzsche, "Thus Spoke Zarathustra ----- Nietzsche (The guy that commited suicide in a mental institution) Now there a find example and model of the people wanted for a new civ.. yikes ed 27 Mar 2006 @ 19:16 by b : wow ed? 28 Mar 2006 @ 12:16 by nraye @80.176.105.234 : the Domeone - I just cannot take the credit here, people should know it was a creation by Swanny without intervention from me, being domed wholly acceptable in antithesis. To Bee: V was a metaphor, round thing in sea (swamp actually) wiggly lines thro it for the famous Mind, not necessarily Nietzsche's, has suggestive comparable interstructural developments for consideration in your plea. 28 Mar 2006 @ 20:27 by b : I liked the message of the quote I had no idea the creator of the quote would be attacked for being him. 29 Mar 2006 @ 13:57 by nraye @80.176.105.234 : Sorry Bee The quote was hilarious yes, fell about, but where is the attack? on whom? so must be misunderstanding with double entendre. Is it a virtual or actual Vision Bee, hard to tell. I have designed a proposed city for 50,000 if that's what you mean, the preference is to stick to urban design and loadings rather than buildings per se. Wouldn't the members wish to be responsible for their own places, re everything? Wouldn't they want to start small with space to grow or something? and I still feel you would prefer Swanny, joking aside 29 Mar 2006 @ 14:51 by swanny : I'm lost and confused I'm somewhat if not totally lost and confused in these preceedings but that I aside I'm about to submit a proposal to that Eco-farm near here but not sure if some wish me to feel insulted but I'll do it perhaps later when I have more time. ?????? Anyway wish us luck or somethin... and to you else well despite the confusion etc. 29 Mar 2006 @ 15:26 by nraye @80.176.105.234 : Allow Me to explain - a classic example of text editing here in retro. A reference was made earlier to "a Domeone" in Exigency Calls Forth above, and also a further reference in same para. They are now gone, disappeared. Obviously, as I was not originator of this illus/interpretation, it was with relief to suggest Swanny "who swims with ideas" for Bee's vision. With reference removed my remark looks odd indeed, but there should be a long line of project successful project development behind my recommendation, a compliment in my language. Swanny, you took over, which by now you know you can from previous trust, with more amusing sweet interludial ideas, as you do, and I replied idiomatically (another compliment) fitting to the genre, and blah di blah. Bee may have trouble in his bonnet (not to mix the metaphors) but should be happy to have an apology for nothing, not to mention a selection of designers. And Swanny, it was a professional duet for which you volunteered and received high praise. 29 Mar 2006 @ 15:36 by swanny : Well Thanks I guess... High code often escapes me totally... So you are still not having access??? What seems the concern computer wise??? Well thankyou... again I had alreay told Bee that I'd act as a long distance consultant has I have no wish to leave Canada.... Well you've certainly got the grammar thing licked You could be the projects "linguistics expert or consultant" Did not mean to add to Neitzche problems God knows he had his fair share of trouble... just concerned about sources Sort of good trees bearing good fruit what have you... Geez we're having a fierce topic storm aka topic drift here but about this ecofarm at the moment it is an ecocafe in summer cottage country but with high regards... not sure where the funds are derived from... apparently though quite a successful Alberta Chef Didn't realize there was so much potential in cafes... go figure. 29 Mar 2006 @ 21:06 by b : I suppose that it's good that the author of the Neitze quote is attacked not the content of the quote which was ignored. I kind of liked it. This blog thread refers to the header post: Finding, developing and operating a gold mine that will fund a model new civilization community. ANYBODY INTERESTED? 29 Mar 2006 @ 22:42 by vaxen : ... "When freedom is Outlawed, only Outlaws will be free" Do what you need to do to survive within the present system, and, simultaneously, build an alternative system – parallel, shadow, and free (in every respect). 29 Mar 2006 @ 22:51 by b : I agree about real money in a new civilization. Gold is not a currency of course. Gold is real easy to trade or turn into currency or make into a work of art. It's lasting. It's a commodity. re the plan, the outline is on my recent blogs. 30 Mar 2006 @ 21:54 by b : Funding for newciv model project is still available. There must be NCN member interest for this project to move forward through the membership participation of NCN. 2 Apr 2006 @ 05:19 by vaxen : ... Withdrawing support is a great idea, but don't labor over it. Withdrawing from the pork barrel is also a great idea, but partaking can be rationalized as hurrying the collapse of the state (in a fiat money system), such that it is moral to withdraw, but not immoral to precipitate crisis as knowing saboteurs (and not critical, either way). 3 Apr 2006 @ 18:07 by b : Yes, there is suitable land with water. It is a four season climate in high desert. There are three stages of the immediate project. First to raise some money to secure the land, mineral rights and prove them, snd, to debate, discuss here the merits of a newciv community and what it is to be like. third the contuniing development of the over all project. I have returned to USA, I am in Palm Springs and by the end of this month I will be going up to Northern Nevada to do all of the registrations. I hope that others here will participate with me. 3 Apr 2006 @ 21:27 by vaxen : ...: The divine spark of self-sovereignty is the spark of life itself, howsoever it may be derailed, crippled or enslaved in the process of living under moral and political codes that seek its submission and its subversion. 4 Apr 2006 @ 01:56 by mdaiah : OUT OF MY MIND Thanks for your post Bee. A number of things come to mind for me. The first is that as a forum NewCiv is not working very well. After trying a couple of forums I don't really know one which does work well. So the media itself seems to be a drawback to flowing exchanges. Secondly I wonder if a lack of vision is due to the state of the world just now which appears to be in the hands of powerful, unconscious conservative men (Bush, Blair, Howard for instance.) Social evolution seems to be taking us backwards so that there appears to be a floating anxiety, the politics of fear and a lack of optimism. I know in Australia where I am we have gone from being a friendly, open and caring people into a closed, materialistic economy. I hardly recognise my own country sometimes. So perhaps we are (globally) in this passage of evolution and its characteristic is not such that deep concerns such as consciousness even gain public interest. Today's society wants money, materialism and power and these pursuits repress genuine development. The 'atmosphere' does not seem supportive of new vision more is the shame. Certainly we have never been more in need of genuine vision. 4 Apr 2006 @ 02:12 by b : what I envision and have written here and what others are adding should transcend current civilization to encompass a model that can be created of what life could be like near the end of the 21st century. A place where people live and work where there is no energy problems, no hunger, sheltar and communication for all. And the best of cutting edge technologies. I am willing to create a pie of two hundred and fifty million dollars of extracted precious metals and recreate the earth from whence it came into a landscape caompatable with the community the earth supports. People are the creators. This will fund such a newciv community. 4 Apr 2006 @ 03:14 by vaxen : ... The authority meme is not directly fueled by anyone's particular "love" of external authority. This is inherently repugnant to every human being, upon their very soul and vital spark. Submitting to external authority has the same warm glow as being raped and sodomized. The authority meme functions, rather, through a compromise . . . a "yeah, but . . . ." excuse, argument, rationalization that is fueled by the premise that we must have submission to authority in order to have freedom; acknowledging the contradiction, but living with it on the conviction (of years of brainwashing) that the kind of freedom that Jesus talked about is impractical (the guy didn't know what he was talking about), and that Saul's structure of freedom through subordination to the clan/state/religion has proven effective (?!) for more than 2,000 years . . . and a lot of other "factual" rationalizations to the same effect. 4 Apr 2006 @ 03:34 by b : Vax, if you are talking about a governing document. The individual in a newciv community should be protected. Any community has a society where liberty by an individuals are part of a group that are free to enjoy life, love and happiness with no restrictions other then ownership. The one who owns is the one responsible. Any governing charter of a newciv community should reflect that. 4 Apr 2006 @ 17:38 by b : All of this about the newciv model community I hope can be resovolved here in discussion. About how it is to be governmed, under what principles, how the community can best survive and proper. My immediate concern in presenting this is whether there are members who have made successful investments in the past are are willing to fund this project and recieve a profit for doing it??? 4 Apr 2006 @ 18:56 by vaxen : ... The resistance to liberty includes not only those holding power, but those who have bought into the legal, intellectual and/or moral arguments for their own subordination, and who feel “safe” in their cages. They would feel rudely shocked if confronted with their complicitous sanction of their own slavery – they prefer not to see it in that fashion, nor to admit to such self-betrayal. Most people, however, indoctrinated from birth, have not committed a conscious self-betrayal. They have been cheated, but without even knowing what was at stake. And the little that they know of alternatives has been filtered through their rulers. 4 Apr 2006 @ 21:18 by b : Yes, it is Vax What I want to do is use one of the properties that I have tested and know of to develop to make gold bars. A portion of the profits will fund an on site newciv community, a portion of profits will go to investors. Ownership will be shared by all participants: members of NCN, those who participate, those who go to the newciv community building site, those who help start up the overall projects. What I would like to know is that of the 10 thousand plus membership, are there members who have made investments and who would be willing io invest in this project? I am not asking you for example. I am only looking among the membership for 35 people to invest 10k eack to secure and be owners of the gold bearing property. Many others will need to participate to make a newciv community a reality. Some of these people can live and share in the new community. All newciv members are welcome to have their say or present their vision. 5 Apr 2006 @ 02:39 by vaxen : ... If you want liberty in which to heal, you need to heal enough to attain liberty. To begin the healing process at full bore, you only need to attain liberty itself. Basic, simple and rough – not a sophisticated design. You don't need to be selling anything else (to yourself or to others). Forget the “. . . but what about BLANK?” – ignore the evasive excuses and the mock arguments. 5 Apr 2006 @ 03:57 by vibrani : Bee I assume there will be legal documents, contracts? This will be a corporation or some kind of partnership? Who will oversee the financial side of this and keep investors abreast of their investments and progress of the project? I assume there will be a bank account? Can a member see the legal contract before deciding to invest? I, for instance, wouldn't dare sign a contract without my lawyers seeing it and their advice about it. 5 Apr 2006 @ 08:55 by vaxen : ... Don't focus on undoing anything. Don't even force the issue of nonsupport of statism. Give yourself and your neighbors a power that supplants your present dependence on the “protective services” of the state. 5 Apr 2006 @ 17:05 by b : Vax Yes, by all means let's keep this as simple as possible. I appreciate your comments and interest. As stated there are different parts to this project. I believe that you refer essentially to the newciv community. I see this as a starting township developing on the mining site after the milling starts. In the beginning people will be able to live in trailers. A founding chartr of community that wxplains how it works and maybe a council or committee to oversee community delopment. Later as public services are formed maybe a mayor? As for the operating entities, first is a company I have formed to prospect, discover, register a sold bearing property that is tested to perform mining, millin and smelting of gold. This is the general grouping of the first divisions with 28 per cent going to the founding investors who provide the intial 350k to set it all up. By that I meant secure the property, tested for suffient gold reserves and even a pilot gold development project. Members are welcome to participate in the creation of the newciv community and to participate in the mining development discovery company. Obviously in the precious metal development company technical job skills like heavy equipment operation will be needed. I would prefer to find people with mining, milling skills in the area which is in a large gold and silver mining area in northern Nevada. 5 Apr 2006 @ 17:29 by b : VibraniYes, there will be legal documents of subscription to the iniatal prospecting, discovery and mining development company. A corporation is not needed at this time. After the properties aresecured, tested and some mining, milling is done. There will be a formation of a Nevada corporation of which the original investors will own a chunk of and so specified. So will the Newciv community. Divisions are left open of the original 100% for 2nd stage investors who will recieve shares from private placement. The second raise over two years starting in 2007 will put the site into full production: mining, milling, smelting gold. An additional percentage will go to those investors. Yes, there will be monthly reports and pictures. Yes, there will be bank accounts, a company address, fedx, phones, fax etc. Of course founding members of the newciv project can see the subscription documents. The intial investors in the discovery company are the founding members who come from NCN membership. The 2nd stage of investion will come from the public with NCN members dispersing the shares. I plan to turn over as much as I can of this to the membership participators. I will have a residence in the newciv community and some shares but very little ownership after the first two years. I do need someone to help handle the money flows. Who better then the founders? I have briefly talked with Ming about this. 5 Apr 2006 @ 17:53 by bushman : Citrus and Avacados These 2 things, would be a great comodity outside California grown. Bringing the farm to the people. I would still need to go to the parcil of land or have one of my minions go take a look. Making soils will be very important is just my guess, not very good soil out there unless there is dry lakebed that isnt salted. From what I can tell, this place is going to be rocky. Another thing that will need to be looked at is, how is the land set up in such a way that we can make suitable watershed space and control the erosion as well as store the rain water mostly underground. They put in this resort out here and built this golf course on top of a man made resivor, one of the greatest ideas Ive seen, where they damed up a huge runoff channel and then layed water storage blocks down in it then back filled with gravels, then a layer of semi permiable sheeting, then a layer of sand and pea gravel on top of that, then they brought in good topsoil, like a 3ft layer covering the entire golf course area, creating a huge underground lake, of course they dont use this water for drinking, since they also treat thier own sewage and store the grey water there. They use this water for landscape only. One thing they didnt do was set up a pumping system that would circulate that water around a river system and settling ponds, if they had done this, the water would be drinkable, by aration and gasing out. Of course we are talking a pretty big pumping system, that will have to be run by solar power. Basicly the system turns on when the sun is out, shuts off at night. But by having a greywater system built right into the infastructure of the new town, that waters everything automaticly. Say Bee, lol, are we going to have to wear different colored star trek shirts, to denote what department people are in, when clocked in at the time? lol. Like, oh theres a red shirt, that denotes this person is in the enginering department and is clocked in or on duty, we can just call him/her over for consultaion or advice on a project. I mean, I could deal with a star trek type gov. :} 5 Apr 2006 @ 18:22 by b : Lol Bushman I could too. I guess we don't want it too regimented but we will need security with all of that gold around. :) Good stuff about the water. The one site I want to procure is about 7 miles long and maybe a mile wide at it s widest. It has a water shed that should be protected from pollution at all times. You present some good ideas to be incorporated into the community site. Doing the right thing for the site from the start is very important. The secondary property I have an interest in is much larger and has a small lake on it with water continualy running through a pepe into it from a spring. 6 Apr 2006 @ 02:20 by vaxen : ... Withdrawing support is a great idea, but don't labor over it. Withdrawing from the pork barrel is also a great idea, but partaking can be rationalized as hurrying the collapse of the state (in a fiat money system), such that it is moral to withdraw, but not immoral to precipitate crisis as knowing saboteurs (and not critical, either way). 6 Apr 2006 @ 14:00 by swan : Just a thought, Bee, if you want to reach more of the membership about investing you might think of sending a mass email. I don't think more than 100 or so people(just a guess) are active in the members areas so the majority of members are not seeing your logs. 6 Apr 2006 @ 15:52 by ming : Mass e-mail Yes, B and I have talked about that. I'd find it quite likely that there's much more chance of finding the right people that way, than from just who happen to be here on the site right now. But there have been no mass e-mailings to all of NCN for years. So I have a slight reservation. Or, rather, I think that kind of would have to go along with re-starting that channel. I used to send out regular newsletters with collections of proposed projects from members, and others with submitted visions. All of which was quite inspiring and useful. So, I'll need to decide if it is meaningful to start that up again, and make the gold project here be one of the items. Because, also, the moment we start sending out mail there will be issues of a lot of addresses being invalid after a number of years, and I need a system of dealing with that. Plus getting people used to paying attention to mailings again. 6 Apr 2006 @ 18:17 by vaxen : ... Liberty is not conservative. It is expansive. Liberty is not escape. It is immersion. Liberty is not a demand. It is a gift. An exchange. Of respect (re-again spectare-to 'look' at). http://www.strike-the-root/ 6 Apr 2006 @ 18:52 by b : Swan, nice to see you here I have been conversing with Ming about a one time mailer to all of the members about this and it might be posible. I will use it to start a work group to hat many people can participate in the discussions. Managers of different parts will be needed. 6 Apr 2006 @ 18:57 by b : Thanks Ming I would like to work it out with you to do a one time mailer to all members both to see how much interest there is and to find out if NCN has any qualified or unqualified potentitial investors who in starting up the gold mining part would be willing to risk investment money to recieve a greater return on their investment. 6 Apr 2006 @ 19:09 by b : Vax I don't understand what you meant about limitations? Yes, I do have a proforma. I don't intend to use a perspectus or a private placement memorandum for non public members. It is not my intention to sell stock. I am preparing subscription documents that will spell out rights, risks and returns and procedures. I do have a long history of experience in investment banking though not in the last several years. I am purposely not using this as a commercial venture for the public. After all of this is well along its way and ownership is established in the first company we might ask the public for further financing to mine and mill. Them bulldozers and operators ain't cheap. Nor the gas to run the startup genorators on site. Because I am appealing to the NCN membership for inerest, participation and intial funding I am basing that appeal on my credability as a long time NCN meber who is known here. I do want to show that I can work with others here to create and fund a common goal. That is what I have presented. Thanks again for the link. 6 Apr 2006 @ 19:43 by vaxen : ... Liberty is not an organization, institution or movement. It is the action of individuals. And that's all it is. (From the beginning stages, to its full fruition.) 6 Apr 2006 @ 21:30 by b : Vax, You did not read my comment carefully to you about docs or you would have seen what I said about public docs.. No, there is no perspectus going to be mailed out. We are in an electronic age now. No, there is no connection with this project, NCN to Scientology or antiscientology. I see the foundations of NCN were made by Flemming Funch not Cap'n Bill. If there are potential investor I hope that they will use the internal mail at NCN to contact me b, bee, b berez re the gold part of the newciv model project. I will have investor docs for them. Again, I am not dealing with the public for the gold discovery and mining project. I decided because of my long relationship with NCN to create this income producing project for NCN and establish what seems an NCN ideal, that of creating a newciv model community. Yes, I could go out to the public and I would go about it in a completely different way if I did that. I have offered this to the NCN membership and I think it will fit within the timetable of getting it done on the ground. Yes, it might be faster using public cantacts and a more formal offering but I still think the NCN membership can do the first funding and first ownership and so share in the first profits and that includes the startup of a newciv community. 7 Apr 2006 @ 02:15 by vaxen : ... Whether they fear confronting self-betrayal – for which they are not culpable, in itself – or fear assuming responsibility for their own sovereignty – for which they are ill-prepared – they are resistant to giving up their slavery for a better and more fully human life. 7 Apr 2006 @ 05:31 by ashanti : Hmmmmmm. 10k, I presume equals US$ 10,000? That's a reasonable amount. Is this only for Americans? Or only Americans and Europeans? Governance is always, excuse my language, a bitch. Most projects fall down with people bickering over interpretations of perfectly reasonable guidelines/policies. There have been many attempts to get something like this going. Even back to Nathaniel Hawthorne's day (The Blithedale Romance), when the Transcendentalists were attempting to get a new civilization going. I would so love to see something like this work, in practical reality. I would be prepared to invest in something like this if I could be assured that there was no taint of Scientology embedded anywhere, and would almost like to a see a pilot test of governance issues being resolved amicably. Can a group of people work together as a group, without descending into ad hominem attacks and bitter fights when the challenges arise to deal with? Which leads to the thing falling apart at some stage? If THAT can be achieved, that alone will be a MASSIVE MASSIVE step forward in establishing a *truly* new civilization. 7 Apr 2006 @ 07:12 by vaxen : ... The resistance to liberty includes not only those holding power, but those who have bought into the legal, intellectual and/or moral arguments for their own subordination, and who feel “safe” in their cages. They would feel rudely shocked if confronted with their complicitous sanction of their own slavery – they prefer not to see it in that fashion, nor to admit to such self-betrayal. 7 Apr 2006 @ 07:15 by bushman : Hmm I see the set up, Bee is proposeing is going to be the hub of a larger network of sub communities world wide maybe. It does have that potential. I think those that at one point get to disagreement, it can be satisfied by , the ability of expansion outside the main hub, like buy some connecting land so as those people can test thier view with out a fight. Or say, well over here, is a community that is part of the network that does things the way you want to do it. I mean, the bigest thing in the new civalization idea, is communication and free trade of ideas. In person, I dont see diologs erupting into chaos as they do on the net, in person people are nicer for the most part. Obviously we will still be bound by the laws of Nevada, as well as the feds. Setting up partnerships with neighboring towns and cities, and creating something I call, Educateing tourisim, not lie to the public tourisim. At one point the community wont be suported by the gold, so there will have to be some sort of trade and commerce going on. I deffinetly dont want to see it to turn into another Sedona AZ, where now we see the ones that made Sedona what it was, being pushed out by timeshares, but then what would we call it if it happens to our model community? At some point the public will have access, as they may want to be part of it, learn some stuff they wouldnt normaly learn outside. I wonder how we can protect the whole concept of a new civalization community, with out fences and barbed wire, lol. 7 Apr 2006 @ 08:42 by vaxen : ... The authority meme is not directly fueled by anyone's particular "love" of external authority. This is inherently repugnant to every human being, upon their very soul and vital spark. Submitting to external authority has the same warm glow as being raped and sodomized. The authority meme functions, rather, through a compromise . . . a "yeah, but . . . ." excuse, argument, rationalization that is fueled by the premise that we must have submission to authority in order to have freedom; acknowledging the contradiction, but living with it on the conviction (of years of brainwashing) that the kind of freedom that Jesus talked about is impractical (the guy didn't know what he was talking about), and that Saul's structure of freedom through subordination to the clan/state/religion has proven effective (?!) for more than 2,000 years . . . and a lot of other "factual" rationalizations to the same effect. 7 Apr 2006 @ 16:33 by bushman : Well I think that the above rules, apply to coastal states, I cant see a bunch of people building a battleship to protect say the great salt lake, lol. Anyway its always good practice to buy and sell goods localy. Maybe art work might be sold outside the whole of the USA. Like I dont think we would be selling food to other countries. As for the gold part, if say, the new community does want to help out another community in another country, then it can be set up as a low or no intrest loan. We wouldnt really care if they paid it back or not. Anyway, Im thinking we should set things up to acomodate a one world gov. 7 Apr 2006 @ 18:08 by vaxen : ... The authority meme is not directly fueled by anyone's particular "love" of external authority. This is inherently repugnant to every human being, upon their very soul and vital spark. Submitting to external authority has the same warm glow as being raped and sodomized. The authority meme functions, rather, through a compromise . . . a "yeah, but . . . ." excuse, argument, rationalization that is fueled by the premise that we must have submission to authority in order to have freedom; acknowledging the contradiction, but living with it on the conviction (of years of brainwashing) that the kind of freedom that Jesus talked about is impractical (the guy didn't know what he was talking about), and that Saul's structure of freedom through subordination to the clan/state/religion has proven effective (?!) for more than 2,000 years . . . and a lot of other "factual" rationalizations to the same effect. 7 Apr 2006 @ 19:22 by b : Please Vax, refrain from these long posts of irrelavencies. This is a startup project and we NCN's are going to make the rules for the community. The operation of funding, gold mining, budgets and approiations will all be done in a clinical accounting manner. THe legals will fit withing the law of the land. In this case the USA in present time. Please stay in the now to your references. At leaset for now. I will start a work group which will have different catagories of communications and there you can have at it. For now please bear in mind that I am doing all of the registrations, legals, accounting myself. I have the properties and will secure them when the founding funding is in. And I am doing lots of communicatiing about this. So far the blog is the main area andI hope more people will respond here to the essentials of the project that are posted. The only system that matters here is what we set up. Something new, new, new. 7 Apr 2006 @ 19:26 by b : Ashanti Thanks for your comments. Again I assure you this project has nothing to do with Scientology or scientologists or nonsecientologists for that matter. About investing, thebest way to question that is with me via internal imail through the message center when you log in. The founding investors will recieve the biggest return on their investment. This investment and participation is for any of NCN members. Obviously, If you do invest in a project that is in USA it would be fun and interesting to visit or live in the newciv model community when it well along the way of development. 7 Apr 2006 @ 21:02 by vaxen : ... ... 7 Apr 2006 @ 21:15 by b : Bushman Thanks again for your input. You always seem to be a guy with newciv visions, especially in forming a newciv community. I don't have an exact timetable of development yet but I expect to be in northen Nevada by the end of this month to start things off there. THere has been a tremendous amount of details to cover in opening a new compnay with all the things needed for operation. Something new, new, new. 7 Apr 2006 @ 22:51 by jobrown : See, bickering, bickering!.... Why? (in MHO ) because the CARROT offered was GOLD!... NOT starting a new Cicilasation/World; Better for ALL!!! To help heal all Soil , so severely injured /poisoned today, is done by creating Black Gold, which Yellow Gold never can replace!!! There's TONS of people out there who already has started a New Civ.; some of these communities decades old and booming & blooming like there's no tomorrow, as the saying goes, so what 's all this bruha 'bout???? To anyone who is the least serious about wanting to start a new(civ) Community to check out http://www.sustainablelivingsystems.org/ Read their Mission Statement, about their Local Food System, their Community Land Trust, Local Currency..... heck, read it all! : ) an' know that this is just one of the many wonderful Places who are already successful in doing all you SAY you want to do!.... Incidentally NONE of them has digging gold on their Agenda!... Now.... YOU guys figure out what role not working on digging gold might have to do with their succes and flourishing Life!.... and yes, these communities are contributing seriously in bringing forth a New MORE LOVING Civilazation AND a Happier; HEALTHIER PLanet Earth!!! After all: Health unites all life!...into one happy family, you could say. 7 Apr 2006 @ 23:04 by bushman : lol Blueperson Those comunities will never travel the stars, in person, only in dreamtime or meditation, how boring that life would be, lets just sit, get high, and pretend. 7 Apr 2006 @ 23:08 by vibrani : Not that I'm telling Bee what to do or anything, but just consider that people SERIOUSLY able to invest, (HAVE MONEY) and those interested in being part of the project, contact Bee by message or email. 8 Apr 2006 @ 18:20 by jobrown : "All truth goes through three stages. First it is ridiculed. Then it is violently opposed. Finally, it is accepted as self-evident."-- (Schoepenhouer) Thank Goodness,Bushy, that Ignorance is a Bliss -to the Ignorant, him/herself, eh? ; ) /// *!* 8 Apr 2006 @ 18:50 by bushman : Hmm All things must go thru transitions, this what is the flaw with Darwins work, because nothing just becomes what it is, from something else with just one movment, its more about stages, not about jumpping backwards, to go back to that place where it all went wrong in the past, and take a different path. We can't go back. What kind of mentality would sit back and watch 90% of the worlds human population die off, and then be happy about it? The New Civ Community is about transition into a time, that we can teach the people conciousness, and show them how it could be, and still keep those 90% useless consumers and eatters alive. The ones that you hate Blueboy, have just as much right to be here as you do. It's about education, not destruction. Why would souls even come here to be born, if there wasnt a reason for it? :} 8 Apr 2006 @ 20:05 by jobrown : That's exactly why I said: "All truth goes through three stages. First it is ridiculed. Then it is violently opposed. Finally, it is accepted as self-evident."- You know that cliche-like statement about "leading the horse to the Water, but not being able to drink FOR the horse" ... that is so true! Keep on keeping on -and smile : )... coz I have really no clue WHAT you're talking about/insinuating here!: ( "All things must go thru transitions, this what is the flaw with Darwins work, because nothing just becomes what it is, from something else with just one movment, its more about stages, not about jumpping backwards, to go back to that place where it all went wrong in the past, and take a different path. We can't go back. What kind of mentality would sit back and watch 90% of the worlds human population die off, and then be happy about it? The New Civ Community is about transition into a time, that we can teach the people conciousness, and show them how it could be, and still keep those 90% useless consumers and eatters alive. The ones that you hate Blueboy, have just as much right to be here as you do. It's about education, not destruction. Why would souls even come here to be born, if there wasnt a reason for it? :}) ????? -or are just projecting your own 'awareness'??? You are certainly NOT having a two way interaction here, giving Feedback to my comments!... I'm sorry... (you're obviously )talk(ing) for yourself. Not only that, but you are shooting yourself in the foot, as the saying goes!... The closer we are to eachother on our Paths, the easier we can communicate and understand eachother. That's what the concept of 'Kindred Spirits' is all about. Good Luck to you. We are all -SOMEWHERE- on the Path! Sustainable Living IS of/theee HIGHER consiousness, hence the more loving consciousness = ALL-INCLUDING consciousness than is (your) Survival ( "of the fittest")consiousness!... To raise ourselves from there, is what we all have had to do. Eventually everyone will walk that same Path; the Path of ONE. 8 Apr 2006 @ 23:03 by b : Blueperson I take it you do not want to live in a newciv model community and be part of starting new things to have a better life. Your life is fine for you and Members don't do what you say. Right. Also you can not invest so you deplore profit. Hey, some people in a discussion take their information and leave because they do not know what they want. I just hope there are enough pep[le of the membership who want to see a better quality of life and more who want to have it. It can be done with change. I present this opportunity. 8 Apr 2006 @ 23:25 by bushman : I dont agree, All our paths are not enevitably one and the same path, I personaly am not and never will be part of the hive. Many paths to the same place/goal, is how I see it. There is no feedback when there is no rational application for it, what are you doing? Wheres the action? All I see is your dream of utopia Blueboy, people living off the land in thier beat up van, or cardboard shanty towns like there used to be in Tijiuana. Its fine for those that have decided thier path ends where you are. In reality our paths never end, therefor mankind can't sit and stagnate. We are explorers, once you reach your place, the fun is over. I'm not ready to sit in my rocking chair and rest. Im going for the day, sustainable liveing means food replicators, free energy, free communications, the end to all sickness. Im not one to leave it in Gods hands. It's not like you have to participate Blueboy, if it goes against what you beleive is true, then why even say anything at all? Other than to push your beliefs on others, with no real solutions. Diversity is what it's all about, not being in some wacked-out lazy collective. :} 9 Apr 2006 @ 00:09 by vibrani : Bushman I love your last several comments - right on! 9 Apr 2006 @ 03:44 by vaxen : ... Driving force moving this clique? 1: Greed. 2:Lust for power. 3:Professional recognition and acceptence (Academics: a subtle form of egoism and lust for power). A side benefit of 'fellowship' is mutual support and encouragement. Bretton Woods 1944 the World Bank was created. Economics, Politics, Religion: The tri-angle of all societies. Das Verbotene Thema? Le Sujet Interdit? Carpe Libertatem! http://www.ic3.com/ 9 Apr 2006 @ 21:06 by vibrani : Some people are so full of crap it's laughable. 9 Apr 2006 @ 21:18 by vaxen : Yeah... like you. So why not make use of the little girls room and go powder your a**? 10 Apr 2006 @ 23:04 by b : I would like to take off the last few comments that are non secquiter to this blog which is about starting a newciv community and operating a gold mine to pay for it. Surely there are more members of NCN that want to be a part of somehting new and profitable? It is possible to be rewarded here on Earth without waiting to get it in Heaven, lol. I'll leave the comments stand. I hope it is not a descent to vulgarity. 11 Apr 2006 @ 02:18 by jobrown : Your Idea of starting a Happy Self-sustaining Community is by no means "wrong" -i do not think- in anybody's mind!... and making it profable and to be rewarded here on Earth is certainly the way Things were -and indeed ARE- meant to be! The only point why people have questioned -or seen as slightly "wrong" with your amendable Task- is the gold mining!.... which is NOT "A new approach" to/for A-New-ways-thinking-living/acting Humankind. I can tell you, that there has been ( and I am sure there still is) quite a bit of interest here among NCN Members to start a New, Sustainable Living-community. I have been talking privately with a whole bunch of members for a long time already about them joining me and my hubby Dave. We are in the midst of bying the Land (the "hub-in- the-wheel" part, as I call it, from where we will expand as we grow in membership and means to purchase more land) and will be moving there in a month or so. And all the friends on NCN whom I have asked/invited ; they know who they are and they all know they are welcome any time to join/stay as long as they want/visit -whichever suits their needs & lives! We are doing "things" the way so many other successful Sust.Living Communities already have done: start small and grow. First one has to decide what size is a good starting size for one's community. ( Most of them are between 5 acres to 100 acres.) Did you say the Land you have in mind is 22000acres? Twenty-two-thousand acres equals 34.375 square miles. (Down -town San Fransisco is 5 sq.miles!)A LOT of Peaches and Potatoes can be grown on just TWO acres!!! A LOT!!!... http://www.ic.org/ I'm giving this link, just in case you haven't heard about this wonderful source of Info. Also on Metacrawler ; if you look up Sustainable Living Communities you will get a whole "shit load" of links to wonderful communities. Many of them give classes in "How to start /manage a Community" , classes in Organic Farming, Solar Power, Hydro Power as well as Wind; in other words: how to have a thriving community with all modern equipm -without being part of the Big(Boys' ) Power Grid, that can and eventually WILL be shut off without as much as one word forwarning... -without any further destruction/toxic ways of making the electricity -and Classses in so much more . (You'll be surprized -in case you haven't reseached these things yet.) I personally think that you MIGHT have put the cart before the Horse, as the saying goes...and this is why people -who have ANY clue what it takes to get this kind of Enterprize going/succesful/happy and so forth, have not responded to you when you are talking about goldmining as the first and foremost thing. The LIFE and the Community in Itself; the health of /healing of its soil and if need be even its water sources and its Members happiness is its first and foremost "gold" and that is how they then feel good about Life and happy to go on and spread/ teach The Good News about "How To Create a New Happier Civilization" and "How to make sure ALL can find and come to LIVE such a Life", which indeed is the Highest Goal of ALL Sustainable Living Comunitites. The World's three most famous Sustaianble Living Communites! http://www.ecovillagefindhorn.com/ http://www.findhorn.org/home_new.php http://www.ananda.org/ananda/village/ http://www.expandinglight.org/who/about/ananda-village.htm Auroville is definitely the biggest, with many little towns, the way I can imagine you making your Community/22000 acres spread. That is probably the size of Auroville as well. http://www.auroville.org/gallery/visual_tour/solar_kitchen_1.htm http://www.auroville.org/index.htm here's two more really good links: www.solarliving.org/ and www.realgoods.com I wish you Good Luck! ALL with Good Intentions, which I know you have, deserve the very best of Luck and support! : ) 11 Apr 2006 @ 03:13 by vibrani : I'm interested in being part of this and I'm seriously considering it. Bee, it's your log and you control the comments being here or not - I don't have any problem with anything you do in your log. 11 Apr 2006 @ 17:48 by b : Thanks Vibrani I am glad that you want to be a part of this. I will be talking to you personaly soon. You might also consider not just making a passive investment as so many do for the profit(which is ok) but also taking a position of responsiblity both in the discovery company and the newciv community project. I also would like Bushman to have a position of responsibility in the newciv community part. But first the discovery and mining company has to be developed. 18 Apr 2006 @ 19:41 by vibrani : B I did say I would seriously consider it, and I have. Thank you for the opportunity, but I am declining the invitation and will not invest in it. I do wish you all the best of luck with it. 29 Jan 2015 @ 06:48 by Susi @91.72.221.78 : dJtWnIRDGqrHXVJAc Is it possible to exapnd on the assertions in the last sentence, about Rocha's goal of eliminating Shared Governance? If you can do so without violating the confidentiality of the negotiations, I think it would be interesting and valuable to document exactly how this is manifest. 29 Jan 2015 @ 15:01 by Enes @190.201.12.13 : vQnyqslubqJunpQGWFRR of veterans of the Vancouver music scene, it’s ricodulius to expect any band to mesh perfectly on their first EP. After having gone through some lineup changes, Season to Attack strives to become a stronger, 29 Apr 2016 @ 10:09 by Bandar Togel @103.12.162.4 : brilliant! I would like to share this ar Togel Online Singapore Togel Online Hongkong Bandar Togel Singapore Bandar Togel Togel Online Terpercaya Bandar Togel Online Terpercaya Togel Online Agen Togel Online Terpercaya Agen Togel Online Other entries in Systems Thinking 28 Jun 2010 @ 00:03: Pump up the synchronicity 27 Jun 2010 @ 02:28: Be afraid, be very afraid 23 Nov 2008 @ 22:54: Endspiel - der Monopol und Deine Aufhebung 20 Oct 2008 @ 18:48: For discussion: Revised Call for Papers & logo 7 May 2008 @ 09:27: What is a system and why should we care to know? 4 May 2008 @ 01:08: System Oriented Modelling Paradigm - Brainstorming notes 03 25 Apr 2008 @ 11:32: System Oriented Modelling Paradigm 23 Apr 2008 @ 09:25: Pascal's Triangle, Self-similarity and Phi 13 Apr 2008 @ 09:47: Phi is the constant of Self-Similarity 1 Dec 2007 @ 16:36: considering options
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