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The Sandorian Grove: The Choice to Make Choices |
Category: Articles 29 comments 23 Oct 2004 @ 15:58 by martha : Well Max i don't entirely agreewith your statements. While for the most part your statements are true there have been people that have stepped out of the box and they have made changes in humanities thinking. Granted it is hard to do and many have paid a heavy toll by being assassinated but it can happen. And there have been mass movements also for groups to claim their rights and ask for the respect due them. The evolution is slow but it is happening. Rather then dwell on what is not happening in our world, isn't the best thing to do to just work on oneself and live by example? 23 Oct 2004 @ 18:09 by ming : Free Choice Then, again, the people who stand up and dare to lead something great might also be playing out scripts in their minds. Might be hard to know the difference sometimes. For that matter, takes some digging through some layers to even understand whether we're really making choices or just doing what we were programmed to do. Am I making a free choice when I choose Coke over Pepsi? Probably the most difficult puzzle we have. How do I get to make my own free choices most of the time? How do I pop out of the mold, skip over my habits, my personality profile, see right through the abstractions, and deal with the Real, surfing through life freely, discovering the unknown in every instant. 23 Oct 2004 @ 18:16 by skookum : When I became very disillusioned by religion and my life in general, I felt that void within me. That void was the availability of choice finally being there. I imagine that many do not like that feeling, it isn't the most comfortable thing to be aware that you no longer fit into the life and reality you thought you did. It has a feeling of isolation, real or perceived. I still feel that way a great deal of the time. It is like I am looking at everyone I see, and I feel like they are another species altogether than myself. Now I know, deep inside that I am connected to all life. Yet...something feels alien. 23 Oct 2004 @ 20:11 by Ed @68.136.84.87 : no free choices... Max is correct. People do not usually make free choices, especially the people who are trying to make them! Contemplatives have attempted to avoid this by making no choices -- but the choice to make no choices is a choice, and one driven by a specific life script! (this latter is often a script called "Shango Oban Yoko", following the path of otura meji.) I've been tracing the exact mechanism of decisions for some years. At the present time I perceive that a script is driven in this manner: The person is formed as a personality around a set of goals. These goals are composed of basic urges such as the urge to survive, the urge to create, the urge toward love, etc. The goals are normally combinations (pairs) of these urges linked together ( each is an "actual GPM goal"). The goals then impinge on the organism in the form of PHYSICAL SENSATIONS which attempt to enforce the goals. Each sensation can trigger (key-in) an EMOTION, and that emotion's attitude (fixed viewpoint, AKA service facsimile). The emotion(s) and attitude trigger the fixed viewpoint to produce THOUGHTS. These thoughts explain and justify the attitude, which supports the emotion, which is vibrating atop the sensation. The thoughts are then used as a means to take various actions. The person is usually only conscious of the thoughts and emotions, and does not perceive the sensations and urges. So.... Max, are you going to censor this one too???? ;-))))))) Is this too hot? heh heh... cheers Ed 23 Oct 2004 @ 21:49 by vaxen : Yeah... nicely said Ed. We understand Max's dilemma, too, and agree, in part, with that fabled little purple book. Thesis, Antithesis, Synthesis. The Hegelian fracturing of ancient theta into python scripted verse. Now where is that Wheatstone bridge? When is a wheat stone a wet stone? Thanks Max. http://www.biomindsuperpowers.com/ Ifa De Oro... 24 Oct 2004 @ 04:28 by al @213.210.75.209 : Give a free choice to all Hi all My choice is to give a free choice to all. I else don’t compile this cycle addressing a free to whole World. Is there else more high choice to make choices in this World? al 24 Oct 2004 @ 06:36 by vaxen : Hmmm A long time ago Spirits could communicate directly via the transference of cause directly to effect. If they had an idea and they wanted you to peruse it they would just have the idea that you had the idea too. You can still do this today, if you dare. 24 Oct 2004 @ 11:18 by al @213.210.75.62 : To Gunter Hi It’s open question. Who are you? Are you just an actor or a producer and a scripter as well willing or not? al 25 Oct 2004 @ 01:03 by Ge Zi @24.127.146.67 : good question As to the question who I am - the best I know is that I'm just 'I', and as to what, maybe just a movie consumer. It's long know that the only thing I know is that I am. You all might be just figments of my imagination. Seen from the other end, I might be just a figment of your imagination now talking to you trying to confuse you. Or to give you hints on what is really going on and just putting you onto the way to truth. In the end, it's just what we decide what is. 25 Oct 2004 @ 04:40 by al @217.18.144.6 : to GZ I' m just 'I' Hi Oneness is keeping in consciousness a chain of thesises simultaneously: I is; All are; I is I; All is all; I is into all; All are into me; I is all; All are I; There is not I at all... al 25 Oct 2004 @ 13:13 by ashanti : Like a..... ....{link:http://www.moviegrooves.com/shop/puppetonachain.htm|Puppet on a Chain}. Know what you mean. 25 Oct 2004 @ 21:10 by vaxen : Hmm... Could'nt resist sharing this link with you. It's to a place that sounds so... Audit My PC dot Com... http://www.auditmypc.com/ I think Electra would split a gut but, then, that's Electra. I'm just a Markabian Mind Techie so things like that make me laugh. You'll probably delete it but that's ok too. How is it possible to 'give' a Thetan free choice? Giving implies having and have implies not have. Who are you, anyway, to be giving 'free choice' away? And the prospect of 'giving someone' free anything smacks to me of Coltus. But, then, I do'nt do bio-forming or bio-mandating. It's not within our squads profile. I do have some experience in Terra forming and bio botting, though. But mostly I just construct and create those famous bio-implants that we are so well known for. Like no body else does it? ;) Yeah, right! We love to give free things to anybody that 'accepts' them. Cause we know that there is no such thing as 'free' (everything comes with a price, even if that proxy is hidden) and that eventual 'choice,' a real overt-motivator ded dedex sequence/sequencer, is never free. "Freedom is not free!"--Old High One Do you agree? Dis-agree? 25 Oct 2004 @ 21:14 by vaxen : Ashanti... Is that the whole track? 26 Oct 2004 @ 02:35 by al @217.18.144.6 : Guitars of the universe Hi I try to not play game on chords of 254-stringes guitars such as: agree / disagree, right / disright etc. I study to play on 8 stringes of a guitar of the universe such as: love / hate, free / slave ... as in Ifa "Adressing a free to all" is a chord I study 26 Oct 2004 @ 05:36 by ashanti : Vaxen LOL! 26 Oct 2004 @ 18:57 by Kathie @68.101.175.211 : Choices I think that our free choice comes before we incarnate and choose our specific life path for that life. At that time we have a better concept of what we really need and want to experience. So, we really do choose. We just don't remember. Of course, a life reading helps us to remember. So, are we really at effect when it comes to 'our choices'? 26 Oct 2004 @ 23:14 by vaxen : Heh Heh Depends, I do suppose, on whether or not you're Markabian, Thetan, Human or... Source, of all. The 'composite case' deals with this issue. Other determined case, it is also called. Case is force, too. You make a choice, as source, to create a MEST (Matter, energy, space, time) universe for yourself to play in. Simple, profound. You are the MEST, you are the source of MEST, so what 'choice' is there in being human? Be, do, have? Have what? ;) A choice. Yah, you have a choice to make. The choice is called to be responsible for what you create. Take a look at Jesus, as an example. Another aspect of the X-EMUlation, Inanna was the first X emulation in this world, he took the 'sins' (Overts/Withholds etc.) of this world upon his own body org! Of course he did! Overt Motivator DED DEDEX sequence all over again! Thetans, and others, have been paying for that little implant, too, for a long time! We can help him too! You create GOD and GOD becomes your helper. We create implants and try to use your 'force' against you. It all works out in the end but only because you have a choice! You have the right to your own sanity. You have a right to leave the game. All hail Emperor X-EMU (Will the real X-EMU-lation please stand up?) No XEMU is NOT (NOTs? Should be NEDOT's!) George Walker Bush! Wow, 4 quadrillion years ago there was a... http://www.spawar.navy.mil/sandiego/ 27 Oct 2004 @ 08:25 by ashanti : Owning our creations ....see, that's the issue. Reality continually eludes the patterns we build to define it. We made it that way, to alleviate boredom. We got stuck when we started disowning our creations - especially those we didn't like. We didn't uncreate them, we just abandoned them. Compound that by billions of consciousness-units, and you have the mess we're in. We each have a choice to go and track down and clean up our own mess, but the Free Will imperative means that there will always be many who make the choice NOT to. So, how do we ever get out of it? Because none of us can be free - not one single one of us - until we are ALL free. 27 Oct 2004 @ 16:04 by al @213.210.75.66 : vaxen Hi vaxen. Facing with new points of view is a real gift for me. Phrase: “The choice is called to be responsible for what you create” has many effects. Creating gods for creating the different MEST-es (quadrillion quadrillions years ago) was very ”Interesting” however. 29 Oct 2004 @ 18:55 by vaxen : Ring 10,000: TTA (This Time Around). LTA ('WE' lost) who is this 'WE' that lost Ring 9999? Here is a little key to handling ANYTHING in U0: "The VIA is the hidden holder on the U0 MOCOs belonging (Or the pieces of U0 MOCOs belonging) to the OT. If the SS Clone was freed from his/her Composite State (and X's) influence) on the SSRD, then one should also indicate the ADMIN WHY of his/her creation: (Or reason for his/her existence) i.e. "To be my forever (or infinite) representative responsible for creating and holding U0 and the RAG until I return!" When you reconnect with/to your SS Clone give him/her the command: "MOC or free!" (MOCO is Moment Of Creation OF viewpoint) Too much to handle? You HAVE got a choice! 1)You have the right to be sane! 2)You have a right to leave a game! Not to know this and to blithly just disregard all those degrados and pawns, SP's and prime MOCO's, created thetans, etc., ad infinitum, is not lack of responsibility it is pure ignorance. Cause? Denial? How can a person be responsible with out the confront that that very responsibility precludes? YOU are the CAUSE! Your prime MOCOs are pieces...treat them well. Give them the choices and the knowledge that they so richly deserve. Give them a chance, too, in the Game, in the RAG. You wo'nt be sorry that you give your 'battered pieces' the truth! In fact you'll gain more 'admiration points' for the next game, the NTA! Now ante up! ;) There are so many U3 Phi (Fee) Thetans here at NCN that it astounds me that this is still considered a part of the Independent Zone! (Free Zone?) Mention the word S*********y. Ha! They (All those 'disguarded pieces' like the U3 OT7 I confront now and again here) hurt and do'nt even know they were used in a GUM as prime MOCO's and created thetans to be used then disguarded, whenever, having thought that the Church and its' itsas/etceteras was/is for real!. "All lower static states are really only ''Key Outs'' into U0 in some degree or other." I've already come across many prime MOCO's, here at the NCN implant station, acting as a 'COMPOSITE' as well as each being a created 'CLUSTER.' Interesting GUM. Ring 10,000 in RAG. 1) The main being is holding the beings in the composite case. (Who DAT, man?) 2) The composite case is organized into groups and clusters. (Yeah, do you see it?) Run responsibility on "The Black Case." "Return to your MOMENT OF CREATION OR go free!" OS RA SS-G B1 30 Oct 2004 @ 06:54 by Ed @68.136.84.121 : Black cases Filbert mentions that black cases have often misrun NOTs case (entity case), restimming them without removing them. I don't know about running responsibility. I'd be more inclined to want to take the person and treat their bad NOTs as engrams, and run them out using dianetics (erase the bad auditing). BTW, I'm not allergic to the word "S******y". Scientology? Sure, no sweat, no flinch. :) I am allergic to that church though. Been out of it for more than a quarter century. Gee... does that qualify me as an "oldtimer"???? Haw haw, the thought is very amusing! ;-))) On another note, I just a few minutes ago found a whole new set of composite terminals forming a line plot which people use as a template over multiple lifetimes. Emailed it to Max. Maybe he'll post it... or maybe he'll not, heh heh!!! ;-) cheers Ed 30 Oct 2004 @ 09:12 by al @213.210.75.139 : to vaxen Hi vaxen There is beautiful “walking” to abreact such stuff of mind (http://www.viking-z.org/). al 30 Oct 2004 @ 13:08 by vaxen : Filbert... Thought Filbert was just a brand of 'nut' till I caught one of my MOCO's dancing the 'Irish' jig down in Buttermilk bottom, Atlanta, Ga. Now that does beat all! At Cause with C0$? PuhLease. ;) Old Timers unite! You've got nothing to lose but your certs! Thanks, ED, al, et al (al that 'et al' means 'and everyone')... Of course we all know that revisiting Excalibur is not the same as really going out the top. What does he say concerning Phoenix?. Just NOT the same! ;) David Mayo did a good job of infiltration and aberrating, so I'm told, and not everybody who NOTs has NOT. After all, what if they had really all gone OT? Just think of that one for a moment. Gotta say thanks to those early on 'Marcabian Shpionam' else we'd all be doing endless TR0 the "hard way!" No moving, no redeye!' (Do'nt get me wrong, I love TR0!) I, for one, really appreciate you guys and look forward to an 'Enchanting' tip toe through the tulips of time with you. Hell, we never went up on the cans and always got gain. Things were kinder, gentler, more subtle, in those days, before the X emulation implant took hold, before that Journey into time, that time somehow forgot. Old? Want old? Hub's due back any moment now. What's gonna happen then? N(ED)OTs and dumb terminals do'nt lie. Aberrated bridge means aberrated bridge. If you do'nt build your bridge yourself why then ya gotta trust the other guy and we can all see now, and in retrospect, that that's just a 'Slam Dunk' for the overlords. "Build a better bridge!"--Dr Who? Thanks ED for your being here. (Yup 'Scientology') And everyone else, too, for this matter. I'd love to see what you uncovered, Ed... any chance you might publish it here? (Saw one of the old 'Blue Bound' editions, signed by 'Fil,' for sale over at Pauls 'Excalibur Revisited!') Hmmm 'Restimming,' them without removing them (an endless loup, cash generating, machine), 'IS' what that 'it' is all about. Nice little slaves...now go vote! ;) http://fza.org/ I do agree with you about running out the engrams, Ed, but who has engrams anymore? Haw Haw! Got that in-sight-full site al. Glad to know that you do too. I like the walking meditation part. (The Viking Gods, too, as I do the Stadhur) I always med-it-ate when I walk...that's why I've been hit six times by Mack Trucks! Never fear, though, cause I am 'AT CAUSE' in MY universe and I know that those Mack Trucks were nothing but MOCO VIAS from U0 (LTA) (Aberrated Churchniks) and ultimately were run out by a simple attitude adjustment (secret of the grail) on my part. Damned BST's anyway! Musta been SMERSH OPS or OSA influencers using psychotronic machines and Psychic Warfare against me! http://www.ronsorgusa.org/ KRC, ARC, S! Remember your native state to keep it whole. Smert Shpionam! KSW Most of all, though, remember who YOU are. Not that you could ever forget! I do'nt, why should you? ;) OS RA Liber X Teegeeack A Guardian "We sell hoovers." ;) heh heh Now excuse me I've got some DOR to dump. If Wilhem could have only done NOTs! Know 'Black NOTs' is actively used by 'The C0$?' C0$: Restimming the world endlessly for endless 'gain.' Got case? 30 Oct 2004 @ 16:16 by Ed @68.136.84.232 : reply to Vaxen, about Hubby Heh heh, you are very witty, Vaxen; fun to read. :)))) You mention an imminent return of the Hubster. Yes one can assume a quick assumption by him of a baby body in '86 and that would make him about 18 years old now (my my how tempus has fugetted!). But I think not. When an OT falls due to overts, he can fall hard. A major component of OT is occupation of large spaces. Overts and withholds (and that scheming redhead had plenty of both) shorten one's reach, and shrink one's space. O/W's committed using magick cause an exponentially greater, faster collapse. This shrinkage can be held off for a considerable length of time, and in fact much of the tech of the black magicians is focused on delaying their personal "judgement day" as long as possible. But eventually it will catch up with the culprit, then the collapse occurs, magical abilities vanish (this happened to Hubby), and the person's space in the physical universe will shrink to LESS THAN ZERO, forming an inverted space. The abandoned personal space area in the physical universe becomes occcupied with entities, while the Being exists only inside the inverted space (a pocket universe, very common). The condition is a form of psychotic break. Using the alphabetic system of rating beings: AAA, AA, and A through C classes = OT D class = only ones E class = genetic beings F class = unable to incarnate, in "hell" (an inverted space) ...then Hubby would be in an F class condition at the present time, and probably for some time to come. He was a bad boy, and now he is making sure that he pays the price. All that is remaining of him here in the physical universe is a vampiric entity (of the "white knight" type, using Max's terms) which acts as an evil god for its worshipers. For the behavior of such vampiric gods, read Edmund Meadows on the subject; he covers it nicely. cheers Ed 30 Oct 2004 @ 17:16 by vaxen : Xenu! Yeah! I just knew there were a few Marcabian 'frinden' around this GUM0! GUM0 is the EMERGENCY GUM, yes? Lots of GUM to chew on here for sure 24GUMs X 24 CCC's=??? (MU?) Is there a hole in that doughnut? Yes! It is LRH! Not too shabby an analysis for a Markabian, oops (Marcabian) altar os (Mind Control Techie) now is it? Itsa Gotcha? Original Static State before beginning Static State was/is? Your analysis is good, where these Black Static NOTsers from the C0$ are concerned. After all our fair haired boy was a Druid, excommed though, and was scribe to JP's BABALON, where is where he met Diana! Yeah! So what are we to expect? More SO? ONI Forbids it! Got a new JAG and he's a Marine! No more SO! So's gotta go...could we, then say that that is a kind of roundabout SOS? What about all the 'independents' that are treading the Black Static path? How are they to be 'handled' TTA? Especially since they all appear to be LTA connected. I hear GP did audit many, LTA (those that made it!), and that there are tons of W/H's comm. lining via Telec, into that GUM? Cant we just break those locks through the infinity Mantra? What's stopping us from just Blowing it all? When is a mock up a resurrection clone? Ah, the "Existence" and the "Conditions" postulates. Wonder who is in charge of Andromeda Implant station now? I think that is where Osama Bin Laden was sent...like his arch controller X. Madam X? Madam butterfly! Thanks, Ed, for the enlightenment. Here's a little something for you from the ZOO. Mongo Morpheu said: "Now lets get some more recognition. All the events were the same: Inc II, Inc I, Game of Gods, etc., even to the degree of Teegeeack being a "restricted planet" and your "political" incidents. And everything very much parallel to what they did LTA, because most people ARE keyed in on LTA, especially if they haven't looked for the truth. They are just following an LTA pattern enforced by Black Static Thetans who are ordered to sort of "hold that time into restimulation on people". So a lot of people get into restimulation. The lucky ones, like some people when they do Power blow out of LTA or they do a good TR Course, they blow out of LTA, or do a good run of Objectives, they blow out of LTA. That is why Scientologists are so fortunate - most of them - but they can get keyed in again to it by some of the phenomena and you see the unfortunate cases of Mayo and a few of the other independents' which are walking marching, steadily down the LTA track, doing exactly what they did LTA. So realize, that not all the Scientologists, shall we say, are in PT, TTA. Now since they didn't do Excalibur and since they didn't do OT 13, the Phi Thetans from Last Time Around were never freed as no Thetan took responsibility for the creations he had dumped into the Mest Universe. So therefore, those creations were left on that position of the playing field. In other words, in the Mest universe, stuff was left where it was on the playing field." OS RA -G B1 30 Oct 2004 @ 17:19 by vaxen : PS: Concerning our red headed 'CLOWN:' Lets CHOWN him to bits! No! Actually I hear he is do in AD 57. Since he abviously did'nt make it in AD 52? Being time jumpers all, however, we know that the "creaks" can sometimes restim charge so...heavy gravity may have just prevented his lift from forking down into pi. Thoughts? 30 Oct 2004 @ 22:58 by Ed @68.136.84.181 : reply to PS What I find totally shocking is that he must have known that he had fallen, and been unable to do anything about it. I understand that NOTs was developed by Mayo specifically to handle Hubby's case condition. That Hubby could fall, and be unable to recover is quite shocking -- contrasted against the high level of awareness he had shown in the early to mid 1950s. Having inverted into a collapsed condition while still alive (no waiting until after death to face the Dweller on the Threshold), he must have been desperate. I can imagine the horror. It must have seriously sucked. Due in 2007? My name isn't Thomas, but I am doubting that. I think he's still in the bardo, the bad part of the bardo: hell. And will probably remain there for quite a while longer... Of course if we really want to know where he is, just pay Max's airfare and expenses to Los Angeles so that he and I can run a skywork session on the subject. He has a skyworker here with the ability to enter the bardo while alive and report back during the session as to the condition of any bardo occupant. ;-P cheers Ed 31 Oct 2004 @ 02:48 by vaxen : Clay Table It was the pink and blue 'poppers' plus the vistaril, and only his Nurse knows what else, that finally did in his body org. Hey, but what a bunch of research in the meanwhile did he do eh? The prophecies of his 'imminent' return are dealt with above. The MOCOs await forever the return...then they get slowly very pissed. There is a woman working on a thing called 'The Mars Force,' Stephanie Relfe, and her husband Michael. You might wish to check out their site. She had gotten a few auditing lessons, from someone in the 'free zone,' and thought she knew how to audit thetans (Did'nt even know the meaning of the word) and to use the meter too so she went charging off into the deep. She does Kinesiology as well. Well, along comes a lady with some real Heavy Big T's on her back with some super BST's in tow so...she starts to blow. Screaming and, you know, manifesting demon circuit sheise. Steph, poor dear, did'nt know what to do. Lady screaming her guts out, Steph ca'nt stop it cause she is'nt even hatted PC, OT 3 phenomena all over the place... Her hubby had also received, so I'm told, auditing at Stephanies hand. Well, he happens to be a born again Christian...says it is the only thing that has saved him from 'the Mars implant,' we call it, they call it Mars Force and supposedly he was 'tapped' by Gov to go there for a good long time then age regressed, mind blanked and, sent out into the world. Steph taps into it and cures him with Kenesiology and her feeble knowledge of emeter reading. ;) Well poor 'screaming lady' only responded to Michaels in depth knowledge of deliverence Christian style! Turns out she was tapped by Gov too and sent to Mars! These people can all 'kill with their minds' ( Yeah man!) Recently some of their members have died under mysterious circumstances. I tried to tell her to get some real training and that she needed to be trained in Dianetics as well as to be a class IV Scientology auditor at least! I see she has cancelled what promised to be a very lucrative biofeedback tour with her and Michael Converting people to Christianity and deliverence whilst selling emeters and etceteras for $3000.00 a whack! Auditing all the while! Remember those crash courses on the Apollo? Making Executives? Lots of somatics there!Sheesh! Overboard! Skyworker, eh? Thankyou no, though it is tempting, I do my own skywork. Probably have met the chap then. Maybe there in the Bardo cafe...Nepal. The Omellettes there are really very good and the mushrooms they fill them with are psychedelic too. So be forwarned. I used to fly there from Israel in the good old days before the crash. Now we are hunters and trappers of... Some say that he was/is Choronzon. Since we do have the secret of the Grail and have been beyond 000 (Ain Sof Aur) we feel confident that there is nothing in Haven (Not the same as Heaven) or in Abydon we fear losing. "Auditors of the world unite! The only thing you have to lose is your certs!"---LRH Pleasent journey into night. See ya later. Let all minds be totally responsible for their own existence. Let? TPR. Infinity is a state where no god, mind or theology can exist. It's a nice place to live in. Keeping my ethics in. KSW PS: EE got the Tech. X got the Admin! ;) 9 Dec 2004 @ 08:16 by al @217.18.144.6 : Get a choice for freedom for only one le Get a choice for freedom for only one level. The world has the fractal structure. If the majority of persons in the State(US?hm) are on a pole of freedom the State is on a pole of slavery ( and vise versa ). Probably, it is one of basic laws of mutual polarization between levels of the Fractal: polarization of the greater part becomes opposed to polarization for the following internal level (enclosed parts.) And Love or Hate gives Energy for development. Other articles in Articles 23 Sep 2016 @ 17:18: A summary of the summaries of Max Sandor's projects 23 Sep 2016 @ 17:04: Project Summary 6. Game Theory - why and how do we manifest? 23 Sep 2016 @ 17:02: Project Summary 5: Polar Dynamics - theory and praxis of polarities 23 Sep 2016 @ 17:01: Project Summary 4: Quantum Fá - a practical guide to this Universe 23 Sep 2016 @ 16:45: Project Summary 3: The Book of Numbers 22 Sep 2016 @ 16:12: Project Summary 2: UrTon - the basis of spoken languages 18 Sep 2016 @ 00:32: Project Summary 1: The ConCur Paradigm - the structure of Reality 9 Aug 2016 @ 14:35: Robot Psychologist (by Awaz) 9 Aug 2016 @ 14:35: Project Summary 7: Archetypology of the Human Being 1 Aug 2016 @ 00:40: Victory, submission or what else? Sign and symbol of the Rio 2016 Kickoff
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23 Oct 2004 @ 12:49, by Max Sandor