The Sandorian Grove: Minimal tool requirements for 'Awakening as a Being'    
 Minimal tool requirements for 'Awakening as a Being'119 comments
picture10 Jul 2008 @ 18:10, by Max Sandor

The other day I shared some notes I had made for a speech to be delivered, this time I'll share some of what I talked about before a Skywork last Monday in Santos, Brazil.
These days, Heloisa and I are thinking and talking a lot about what would be in a 'minimal tool chest" needed to help a Being to awake itself to the degree that it can start find its way home by itself.

Surely enough 'awakening' is an on-going process and NOT a one-time action, certificate included. But there is a point where the Being realizes that it is NOT what it perceives, rather inside the outside of its inside, at the same time immanent and beyond the manifestations, independent of time and space, yet bound into the flux of consciousness floating within a never-resting stream of densities.

We do have an incredible amount of technologies available these days and selecting the tools for the case at hand individually is certainly the fastest and safest route. But this way of doing things depends on qualified people to apply these tools ethically and efficiently.

It would be very nice to have a minimal set of tools to bring about this initial awakening that allows the Being to go forward and avoids getting trapped again along its path. Last year I created a 'chart of awakening' as an orientation and for finding out what tools we might me missing. This year we want to work on more on the focus of the essential characteristics of what we can call a 'basically awakened' person. This is a person who realizes his composite manifestation as a human being and will not fall back from this consciousness even though the latter may not be stable yet. This is very similar to the Sotapanno concept of Gotamo Siddharto.

We found that it is NOT enough to realize oneself as a 'spiritual Being', mainly because this is already a misnomer. Beings assume the viewpoint of Spirit but that doesn't mean they ARE it. Furthermore, many who think of them as 'enlightened Beings' appear to have no clue whatsoever that they also have a Soul and that this dual nature of Spirit and Soul constitutes the basic game of life. Yet, without an awareness of this duality of the game it seems to me impossible to consider a person 'basically awake'.


... we must work diligently and with highest priority to bring about this awareness.

In the past we assumed it would be easier to help create the awareness of the Spirit side first. I am not so sure anymore of that, so we will go a more balanced way in the future, trying to firmly establish the difference of Soul and Spirit BEFORE going deeper into the aspects of Spirit families (Archetypes/Orishas) and Soul families (tribes).

We next want to focus on the awareness of the sixteen prime energies that make up the matrix of 256 distinct energies (Odu) as a TRIAD similar to the Indian Gunas concept, with the poles being recognized as raja/tamas and the sattva part as the Irunmole (spirit of the energy pair) BEFORE entering deeper into the specifics of the 256 energies.

This set of concepts is giving us the elements to work with. As for the dynamics and relations of these elements, we need the awareness of the phenomena of 'polarization' of energy pairs as well as the identification of Beings with viewpoints. Such an awareness can create the basic tools to resolve this issue nearly by itself. Since both phenomena are based on the trap of fixation on one and only one aspect instead of multiple viewpoints, any invented process to perceive more than ONE 'object' at the same time will go into the wanted direction.

Communication between Spirit and Soul constitutes both the exciting game of life but also is the basis of its basic conflicts, both internal and external. We must relearn and practice how to establish a clear communication in general.

Lastly we need to bring about a clarity of the independence of the process of awakening from the cultural context, formal education, social status, and traditions of any kind. 'Awakening as a Being" necessitates LEAVING the pathways of the past and its lies and falsifications. This awareness should serve also as a minimum protection against the traps of the current culture and its engineered insane Memes, churches, media, secret circles, global and social agendas.

We need to act HERE and NOW, regardless of circumstances, leaving 'hoping' & waiting' to the losers and slaves. And in this aspect, also those who think of themselves as being 'above' the uncivilized masses, are nothing but slaves. Slaves of their own minds and its implanted Memes of the last 5000 years, whether based on secret or 'official' truth. They too are bound by the preprogrammed movements of their soul families, following the stereotypes of their spiritual archetypes like puppets on a string, predictable even though they fantasize of having a free will.

Now, let's go to work...

I'd like to invite more thoughts on the topic of 'what constitutes the minimal requirements of awareness' to wake up as a Being to the point of 'not falling back'!

[< Back] [The Sandorian Grove]



11 Jul 2008 @ 04:51 by Ed Dawson @ : not falling back?
Is that even possible? I do not think so. Exit is the only option. If one stays in the realm of decay, one decays.

So I wish to redefine your question as "what are the minimum constantly applied actions necessary to remain awake?"

The main polarity involved here is conscious/unconscious. And the unconscious is the soul level. It appears to be "below", while spirit appears to be "above". I have lately suspected that this is one of those reversals where what was originally on top now appears below, and vice versa.

The biggest hint of this came when we called the higher and lower selves into the room at Dr Dave's one evening. To my astonishment, Ori was pure Being without any focused awareness that I could perceive. The purity was non-conscious. And yet it appeared to be "higher".

So there is non-conscious in addition to unconscious. Is only the middle self conscious?

Where is Ed going with this, you ask? I am trying to define the problem, which is not yet fully defined, much less resolved. So I am saying that your question cannot be answered yet.  

11 Jul 2008 @ 05:55 by bushman : Hmm
The answer is that there are bugs that live on decay, are they conscious of it? Just leads to a new question. What will the bugs do once they know? :}  

11 Jul 2008 @ 06:14 by mx @ : synthesis of spirit and soul
I see the synthesis of spirit and soul creating consciousness, manifested as what we call the mind. It is very clear that both spirit and soul are NOT self´-conscious by themselves.

Above and below are interpretations of the mind, similar to the interpretation of what is inside and what is outside.

Gotamos postulate of the "maximal 8 lives" before exiting for a sotapanno (stream enterer) may influence me beyond the rational, I must concede and will give it some new thought.

I use the example of the taste of honey frequently as you know: once one has tasted it, one knows how it tastes like and one will always recognize it again. Nothing that could be communicated with words, though...

thanks for the feedback and reminding me of the times of the Skyworks at Dr. Dave´s !!  

11 Jul 2008 @ 06:25 by mx @ : conscious bugs
Bushman, a lot of human professions feed of the innocent and the sick. Without some crimes around, a policeman wouldn´t be able to feed his family. Neither a fire fighter without some nice accidents and catastrophies. The answer to your question: Ask your doctor! (he probably will say "I know. I´m a doctor!". Oh well.  

11 Jul 2008 @ 06:46 by vaxen : What if...
there is 'no back' to fall to?  

11 Jul 2008 @ 07:49 by mortimer : decay
‘’what constitutes the minimal requirements of awareness' to wake up as a Being to the point of 'not falling back’’

Today I would say ''empathy''. As things continue to become more and more intense I am about to lose my cool. There seems to be a threshold; each moment of more intensity brings opportunity to either next level of awareness or awareness inverts the empathy. When somebody inverts / loses their empathy they become the mirror image of the oppressor.

Concerning the increasing death toll, I suggest beings with empathy utilize the relationship triad and support each other. Those beings that show no rational empathy should not be supported.

DO NOT TARGET THOSE WHO SHOW NO EMPATHY! The moment you target those guys you become just like them.  

11 Jul 2008 @ 13:42 by daniela @ : not enough will serve the force
regain the strength that you needs when you falls asleep. Surely one of a necessary tool is the very thin concept of "invalidation" and its point of REHAB .... learn to NOT fall into the trap of invalidation .. because during the path of awakening all or much shit is afloat NOT ONCE BUT continuously and strength and confrontation that are necessary to donot go back are very large.Sotapanno found own strength IN A FLOW OF NO-BACK .The strength of will is very similar to infinite patience. but it's a doing above the observer. the observer notes ..'Awakening as a Being' needs action (costant action) . it needs to find anchor point of rehab constant.get to know its point of temporary rescue from the traps. sooner or later you can go for your street and not be distracted by the ability to stay step - step in tune with the energies around. this ensures stability. like putting out a force that speaks with your strength inside with a bypass when the alarm bell rings. Once the mind sees its mechanisms re-learns to communicate with the soul and spirit and the various identity and will be able to hear the needs and satisfy the various itself "on line". principal question: "how can you find and rehab this force?" with right gradient? ...  

11 Jul 2008 @ 14:54 by Ed Dawson @ : Huh?
So I followed the link on Daniela's name and came to I found this:

"SkyWork, sviluppato da Maximilian Sandor, è la fusione dei paradigmi della Programmazione Neuro-linguistica ( Bandler), il riconoscimento e la riformulazione dei campi morfo-genetici (Sheldrake/Beaumont/Hellinger) nello psico-dramma, dalle costellazioni familiari e dalla teoria e la prassi delle Dinamiche polari (Sandor/Dawson)."

I was talking to someone about skywork two days ago, trying to describe it. One thing I said was that it LOOKED like a psychodrama (psico-dramma), but was not because it involved direct invocation of Beings of all sorts, gathering them out of the universe. If you teach yourself to see (I can teach the technique, adapted from the work of William Atkinson) then you can see orisha, dead people, and morphic field owners materializing out of empty space. I was quite puzzled several years ago when Zivorad Slavinski visited Los Angeles and attended a skywork; he also called it a psychodrama. It can have the appearance of one, except for the fact that one is invoking Beings onto bodies from out of the space exterior to the room. This relation with the exterior universe is the whole point of skywork, and is why skywork can produce spectacular results.

It is not "psychodrama". It is magick. If you invoke gods and the dead (and they come) you are doing magick.

One last remark: It should not be called "skywork". The word skywork sounds like some sort of newage fluff. It should be given a more appropriate and professional name. These days I usually call it "Morphic Field Processing", MFP for short. Just a suggestion, Max.

11 Jul 2008 @ 14:55 by mx @ : "fall back" definition
to clarify: with "falling back" I meant "forgetting to assume the observer's viewpoint from outside the game because of entanglements in the hologram".

One could set an arbitrary period, for example for myself I 'reset' my viewpoint at least once a day, but it wouldn't be right to set an arbitrary as a 'standard'.

And, to be sure, I don't talk about a short 'satori' or drug hallucinations when I talk about the observer's point. It's seeing the space of the hologram (Sanskrit ksetra) without or without the hologram. Deliberately and without mock-ups.

In the training we do for people here in Brazil, I have them each find their own 'optimal reset process' to gain the observer's viewpoint the fastest way, even, or especially, under stress. But it's still a problem when people get immersed into their environments back 'home'.  

11 Jul 2008 @ 15:09 by Ed Dawson @ : back to the main question...
As for a "basic tool chest", what I find useful are:
1. Spacation exercises, especially the Lesser Ritual of the Pentagram, the short, clean version. This keeps one aware of being a spirit instead of a body.
2. Awareness of Primes. The binary splits of Tao are the basic building blocks of reality, both interior and exterior. All Goals-Problems Masses are constructed of these Primes. So are triangles.
3. Silence. The yakkity-yack, jibber-jabbering, bandarlog, diarrhea of the thoughts Conscious Mind absolutely MUST be turned off. Best way to do this is a buddhist hand-grenade called the Zen koan. You hand the mind an insoluble problem and then insist the mind solve it. This breaks the bastard, and its dominance is broken. One has to be able to get that thinking idiot to shut up and the Zen koan does a great job on it.
4. The scientology grades 0-5. I know, I know, many people are allergic to the damned church but just because the church is a monster doesn't mean the techniques don't work. If anything the suppressive dominance by the church is a strong indicator that they have a powerful technology which they want a monopoly on.
5. The no longer used "actual goals" tech. Just keep in mind that the actual goals are formed from Primes. Max mentioned that there is a gunas arrangement on goals, and he is right. With an actual goal the rootword is the rajas, the endword is the tamas, and the sattva is YOU!!!! It is imperative to stay acutely aware of these actual goals.

11 Jul 2008 @ 15:21 by mx @ : morphic field processing..
Ed, most people, even if they claim to be 'advanced' or 'psychic' are really NOT seeing what is happening in front of them as they are chronically MOCKING UP what they want to see. For those, Skywork, or 'morphic field processing' if you will, is just some kind of psychodrama especially if they see it only once and without proper introduction. The basic point there, again, is that today's people are fixating on the spirit side and dismiss or invalidate the soul side of the Universe with disdain and 'spiritual arrogance'. dramatizing EXACTLY what is wrong with themselves and the game at large.

I had a fascinating experience the other day: with a group of people doing Skywork for the very first time and with only an hour or two of introduction, they did nearly all by themselves a complete Skywork of the highest level possible, aligning a 'crossed polarity' with a complete mandala around, entering a deep pleroma for 20 minutes standing like that, just gently moving back and forth, following the subtle flows of the morphogenetic level.

I was nearly shocked as I thought one needs a year or so of practice to get to that level. It seems that some patterns are already entrained in the morphogenetic field to have people produce optimal alignments.

In general. a work like Skywork depends heavily of the qualification and the ethics of the guide. Another example is Heloisa's 'Medusa Method' which for some people appears to be like 'Rebirthing'. However, she works DIRECTLY with the force of 'Medusa', the movements of the Universe, and with the Orisha of the participants. The result is not comparable with anything else out there, a astonishing miracle every single time.

Lastly, 'Skywork' as a name came about historically as a translation from the Zulu paradigm, and because we started out similating planet constellations, remember the first 'real' Skywork at the solstice in North Hollywood?

Really, it should be more 'Earthwork', haha, but in the end we are integrating ALL aspects. We're bringing the principal players together for a short time to resolve their stuck conditions.

For many, 'Skywork' or short 'Sky' has become a Meme in itself. But it would be interesting to find a better name. In Brazil, we say now 'roda da vida', the wheel or circle of life, but here the principle of a 'roda' is present via the paradigms of Capoeira, Umbanda/Candomble, etc. The closest to 'roda' could even be called 'chakra', interestingly.  

11 Jul 2008 @ 17:05 by mortimer : It’s not funny
Mis-Interrupting sharing and guidance as invalidation is not funny.
Prostitution is not funny.
100,000 people a day slaughtered is not funny.  

11 Jul 2008 @ 17:24 by Oscar @ : Is a condition...
I think that there aren't processes or words or special tools for not falling back...

Is a Being's condition, a Sacred Condition...which comes when Being is aware that, sooner or later, everything will be OK, matter when it happens!  

11 Jul 2008 @ 17:37 by mortimer : Sacred?
Show me a condition that is not sacred?
Your bottom line reminds me of the old saying ''out of site, out of mind''.
Earth to Oscar [everything is not ok, 40,000 children go blind everyday]  

11 Jul 2008 @ 17:45 by Oscar @ : Yes, Sacred...
...when everything will be Ok FOR YOU, anywhere FOR YOU!!!...even if the Universe collapses...and this condition is beyond the Universes...

I think that the condition of a politician is not sacred...and never will be...  

11 Jul 2008 @ 17:56 by mortimer : all is sacred
The politician that commits genocide should not be forgotten.

You are free to be responsible.

Beyond the Universes? . . that's a fantasy, a rational justification for no empathy.
You are free to be responsible for your Universe.  

11 Jul 2008 @ 18:16 by mx @ : we're here because we chose too
yes it's a cruel world out there, Mortimer. But let's not forget that the more dramatic a polarization, the 'easier' it gets to recognize it and to draw the energy for 'escape velocity' out of it.

Civilization come, civilization go. From a 'cosmic viewpoint' it's just another experiment. Seeing it from enought distance it doesn't matter in the end if the global endgame marks the end of freedom or not. Whoever will be there, was going there because s/he felt like making this experience.

Heloisa remarked to me the other day just how similar all the speakers/presentations about the global game are and we had a new look. Lo and behold, the revolutionaries are just another counter-meme to the globalist's game, no less, no more.

The true power is in the here and now, wherever you might be. All other things are ultimately distraction.

Once in the here and now, the Sacredness that Oscar talks about, arises.

It's a matter of definition to say everything would be sacred. Same as saying everything is based on matter. Those are tautologies. If everything would be sacred, we could never notice it. Since the state of sacredness can be experienced, it must be one side of a polarity :-)

Mortimer, I understand your bitterness (temporarily I hope). But relax and start seeing the other side, and most importantly, neutralize, hehehe  

11 Jul 2008 @ 18:18 by Oscar @ : Trap of memory
Keep alive the memory of genocides is a TRAP which creates, for Beings, a way to falling back...  

11 Jul 2008 @ 18:37 by mortimer : yeah right
The Politician’s who commit genocide have a strange way of rationalizing / justifying things too. And they also have no empathy.

‘’Memory’s is a trap’’ . . . that is baloney. I suggest stop ripping things up by the roots in the name of progress, the moment you forget your mistakes is moment you are doomed to repeat them. I suggest you step back and take a good look in the mirror before you shadowbox this one. All is sacred, from the dirt and filth to the so called holy sacred, all is sacred. I am bitter and I am sweet, I have Ogbe in my path and I am responsible for everything. Can you feel me now!  

11 Jul 2008 @ 19:30 by vaxen : Spinning...
spinning, spinning... Lots of spin here. Fortunately the Space Orgs learned a long time ago how to adjust ones' being spun around by others' other into an ambient phrase which auto-magically readjusts ones' 'viewpoint' so that space again becomes a constant along-side the theory of being.

The lesser banishing ritual is a nice 'mandala,' replete with Yantra, Mantra, and Mudra which in turn encompass all the greater arts of Tan (Meditation) Tra (Way.) Thesis, anti-thesis, syn-thesis. Theta, anti-theta, syn-theta. Thetic, anti-thetic, syn-thetic. Admiration points admiring one another become? Quadrapalegics.

The English language has no true 'future tense.' Why? Future is a designer concept. We make, create (From Sanskrita Kri), shape, form 'our' own 'futures' out of pliable MEST both mental and physical and that which is neither mental (Mynd/Memory) or physical (Objects/Objective) and we create these multiverses via... contracts or agreements. Who are we? ;)  

11 Jul 2008 @ 19:35 by Ed Dawson @ : to Max
You said: "Heloisa remarked to me the other day just how similar all the speakers/presentations about the global game are and we had a new look. Lo and behold, the revolutionaries are just another counter-meme to the globalist's game, no less, no more."

Part of the functioning of morphic fields is that in order for a field to persist, it must be opposed. Christianity would have gone nowhere if it had not been persecuted.

The opposition gets incorporated into the field as part of the field. So a morphic field is not merely a field of agreement; it is also a field containing agreements to disagree.

11 Jul 2008 @ 19:41 by mortimer : to Ed
Yes, have heard you say that before. I wonder . . Is that why you have been ignoring me?  

11 Jul 2008 @ 20:45 by Luc @ : Soul & Spirit
"Communication between Spirit and Soul constitutes both the exciting game of life but also is the basis of its basic conflicts, both internal and external. We must relearn and practice how to establish a clear communication in general." ... all is sacred but I think there is not a more sacred statement than it. As we assume that Inside the outside of its inside, it could be a good idea if one can work on the direction to clear the comunication between MAN and WOMAN at any level. Is possible to see like a mirror that sometimes we can find some of our internal conflict between soul and spirit in some shadows of the relation with our opposite sex. If one can adjust and clear the comunication with what the other sex represents, the resonance generated from this job will benefit the internal own part of spirit/soul. Thank you Max. I believe the matter between soul and spirit is the basic-basic for any kind of processing.  

11 Jul 2008 @ 21:04 by vaxen : The outside...
is on the inside. In a multifaceted 'gem of knowledge' trap... there are many sides to be perceived. Perception is with the beholder. The way out of the 'gem of knowledge' trap? Through...

I remember the ancient of days, the old one, his eyes so bright and shiny when he said to me: " I am here to learn from you!"

All is clear when the mud settles to the bottom of the pool, the bottom dwellers, happy once again, thought - in liquidity stream... e-merges. Merging is -


11 Jul 2008 @ 21:19 by Conal @ : Minimal tool requirements for 'Awakenin
Hi Max and all,

For me the most effective therapy/self development tool I have found yet is Robert Ducharme's R3X, so it should definitely be part of the toolkit. If you remember reading DMSMH (dianetics, the modern science of mental health) and being enthused about "craating a better bridge" as I was, then you can't ignore R3X as it delivers what DMSMH only promised and a lot more besides, such as resolution of actual GPMs and merging of prime dichotomies.


12 Jul 2008 @ 00:02 by Ed Dawson @ : to Mortimer
I have not been ignoring you. I read what you write, along with everyone else's. I respond to what interests me, and if an exchange such as the conversation between you and Oscar doesn't seem productive to me, I do not add to the discussion.

I mostly talk to Max on this blog because we are old friends and colleagues. And I occasionally talk to Vaxen because he is so much fun. Nothing personal.

12 Jul 2008 @ 00:20 by Ed Dawson @ : to Conal
R3X does all that, eventually. My only criticism of R3X is my criticism of dianetics in general: too slow and tedious, I have done R3X, even a repair session from Robert, and it is the best dianetic technique I have seen. But the fact remains that one is sitting there grinding away at pictures to erase them. And that is not quick and easy!

But, the above criticism of dianetics stated, there may be more value to it than I previously realized. My recent research into mental function shows that the mental image picture, either memory or mockup, is the deepest trigger of reactive responses. the usual chain of triggers in a key-in are:

1. Person perceives something which triggers a picture.
2. Picture triggers an engramic response, i.e. the person feels a sensation in the meat body.
3. The sensation triggers an emotional response (the "secondary"), which is felt in the meat body and/or the meat body's energy field.
4. The emotional response places an attitude. Definition of an attitude: A single fixed point of view and approach to everything. Examples: anger has an attitude of "DESTROY!"; apathy has an attitude of "all is useless".
5. The attitude triggers thoughts. Thoughts are mini points of view. These mini points of view are generated from the fixed point of view contained within the attitude. The person will not think a thought that contradicts the attitude and emotion. The only way this will change is if the person looks at a new picture, which alters the sensation, which changes the emotion, which generates a different attitude.

So from this one can deduce that all reactive behavior stems from pictures. Therefore dianetics is very important to the beginning PC. And the best dianetics is undoubtably R3X.

BUT! But there is a state which Hubbard at one time defined as "clear": it is "no longer subject to the force in pictures". Once a PC/Pre-OT reaches this specific state of clear, dianetics (and R3X) are no longer needed for normal processing. I say this from personal experience. From that point on R3X would be used as a repair if something happens to destroy the clear state.  

12 Jul 2008 @ 03:22 by Mark @ : Pictures to Ed
I know your position on that (that R3X should not be run on 'Clears') and I am still sure there is some MU on your part. (Stemming from your negative experience - the 'why' for this not having been found out). It's an assumption on your side.
Not being overwhelmed by pictures doesn't mean you can not use pictures as an access. Even if you have to mock them up. Using them does not mean it can not lead you to the point where you create in fact the picture yourself in PT.. to 'condensate' a Pre MEST Incident. These 'pictures' are highly aesthetical (balancing the symmetries of polarizations to discharge them), very similat to Deap PEAT content.
The real Clear has never been achieved. The First Dynamic Clear is a 'technical' reality (defginition Filbert:- a qualitative return of confidence in self, not a quantitative erasure or handling of bank (reactive mind ).(Filbert).
There is no other kind of 'Clear' IMO.
R3X does not care 'who's' pictuire it is. Does not insist on a 'real incident' or 'your' incident. U take what comes.
That 'Clears' can not run R3X is not true. What ever happened to you you can process it - wth R3X. If there is a problem doing so - one should run out this problem. With R3X.


12 Jul 2008 @ 04:18 by Ed Dawson @ : Reply to Mark
I was using "clear" for reference. Since you attack the term, I will not use it. You are correct it was a phantasm; poor old Hubbard kept redefining it every few years...

Now back to reality. There is a state, call it what you will, where the effort band response to pictures ceases. This breaks the response in #2 above. Once one is in that condition or state, dianetics becomes non-functional. It becomes non-functional because the pictures do not cause responses, so most of the content of the incident is not keyed in. The picture is just a picture. It is possible to force a reconnection of #2 above, but doing so breaks the state and the full "bank" (as Hubbard would describe it) keys back in. If you do your homework you will find that many so called "clears" experienced their so-called clear state vanish as the full bank and pictures of the time track collapsed on them. If you are unfamiliar with the stories ask around. I believe TigerLily (Mrs. Krenik) had it happen to her.

Just because you have not experienced this, doesn't mean it doesn't exist. Just because you don't believe in it, doesn't mean it isn't real. And accusing me of having an MU is just your way of saying you do not understand what I am saying, you having no experience of it.

Just because you don't know what I am talking about doesn't mean I don't.

It appears I shall have to place quotes around the word "clear" from now on to indicate it is suspect, lol!

12 Jul 2008 @ 04:21 by Ed Dawson @ : addendum
Neglected to put in a few words above. This sentence:
"If you do your homework you will find that many so called "clears" experienced their so-called clear state vanish as the full bank and pictures of the time track collapsed on them."

should actually read:

"If you do your homework you will find that many so called "clears" experienced their so-called clear state vanish during dianetics as the full bank and pictures of the time track collapsed on them."  

12 Jul 2008 @ 06:02 by Mark @ : Reply to Ed
We are on the way to real clear. So if 'the whole bank keys in again' - beautiful. What is 'the whole bank' anyway - probably a dichotomy. This get's handled with Pre MEST Incidents on R3X. So if the bank keys in - it can be handled.
2 things here:
1. In the past - withour R3X people got stuck, because it was too hard run the things with DN. (I could definitively NOT). So the re-key in of the 'whole bank' was a very nasty thing for those who experienced it.
With R3X this re-key in could be handled.
I know about these things. We discussed it on T4R and Tiger-Lilly warned me personally .
2. With R3X MANY MANY 'Clears' have been audited by Robert and others. Robert has mainly 'clears'. NEVER has something like this, like you experienced or Tger -Lilly or others experienced, happened. Becaus a key in only occurs if you do not erase ALL of a chain. (VERY different to Dianetics).
So I still hear what you say - but it still doesn't make sense to me. :-). Nope.
R3X is a very very basic way of processing. One un-does the basic stuck experiences. Avoiding to do this to maintain a 'false' 'clear' - is unnecessary and wrong IMO.
Sorry - we disagree. :-)

12 Jul 2008 @ 07:09 by mortimer : Ok Ed
I finally understand you now, after all these years of studying your work I mistook you as a being that cared, I mistook you as a being with empathy. My opening comment was to everybody. In your view I am not 'interesting' and 'productive', seems I am not worthy, I am not a 'friend' or 'colleague', and I am not 'funny'. But the {|prostitutes selling their virtues} are funny to you. It’s all 'clear' to me now ennit.  

12 Jul 2008 @ 08:49 by Mark @ : To Mortimer
Mortimer - this is case shit. Stop whining. Start processing yourself.

12 Jul 2008 @ 15:02 by mortimer : yeah right
take a look in the mirror Mark, just what exactly what part i said is 'case'?

''whining'' . . . your words not mine, your case not mine.  

12 Jul 2008 @ 15:05 by Ed Dawson @ : to Mortimer
I agree with Mark. You are motivatorish. Write up your overts and withholds and hand them to a safe person to read. Until then, as some of my british friends would say it: bugger off. That means I want no further communication with you until you have done the above.

PS: You are right, I am not a being with sympathy (you said empathy but I know what you meant). I am a cast-iron asshole. LOL! ;-)  

12 Jul 2008 @ 15:08 by mx @ : Silent Thunder (to Mortimer)
sorry, Mortimer, Mark is right. If I had your private e-mail, I would send this message directly. Normally I don't give advice vua Internet. Certain things, like mentioning soul tribes (which are not 100% identical to genetic tribes), are restimulative to those who haven't done certain steps.

I suggest (to anyone, not just you) to depolarize at least the first few polarities of Silent Thunder, Perfect Mind with Reverse Gunas.
best of luck!  

12 Jul 2008 @ 15:11 by mortimer : that cool
I am cool with that Ed  

12 Jul 2008 @ 15:16 by mx @ : cleared cannibal
it's great to have 'no' charge.. but that isn't the same as seeing the game as it is. Observation shows that this monster of 'Spiritual Arrogance' grows out of hand if the 'clearing process' (of the mind, mind you!) is not balanced with realizing & aligning spirit and soul (and each of them).  

12 Jul 2008 @ 15:18 by Ed Dawson @ : to Mark
Do you recall why David Mayo invented (reinvented actually) the NOTs tech? "NOTs" stands for New Era Dianetics for Operating Thetans. It is a way to run off case that couldn't be touched by normal dianetics, because the PC/Pre-OT was in the non-interference zone, i.e. had done Grade 5 or higher. The actual non-interference zone in my opinion is "no visible time track" wherever that might occur on the bridge. These people would try to run dianetics and the track would reappear and crush them. The specific phenomenon is that a HUGE and overwhelming number of case items would all key in at the same time.

So are you saying this does not happen?

Or are you saying that R3X prevents this from happening or quickly handles it? If so, how?

12 Jul 2008 @ 15:28 by mortimer : cool thunder
Max . . . Like I said, I am cool. But I am not silent, more like cool thunder but not silent, I won’t comment here anymore if that what you’re wanting. But the amplifier stays on loud. I not the one overting, i am ready to heal, i am ready to resolve this thing. I can go to my own newslog and make sound thunder. It’s not about the tribes or Orisa, it’s about humanity, it’s about the ‘whole’. Gees, tribes, that just came out of left field, ‘’tribes’’, your words not mine, it's all coming ''clear'' to me now ennit.

newciv offers private messages and you know that so what gives?  

12 Jul 2008 @ 15:39 by mx @ : more unsolicited advice (2 Mortimer)
Mortimer, I respect and welcome your comments very much!

But I repeat and insist, do the Thunder polarities:
your last words dramatize the following part from the text:

"Why have you hated me in your counsels?
For I shall be silent among those who are silent,
and I shall appear and speak, "

But start with the first four, that will fix you up your mischarged Ofun & Oturupon for now, haha :

"For I am the first and the last.
I am the honored one and the scorned one.
I am the whore and the holy one.
I am the wife and the virgin. "  

12 Jul 2008 @ 15:42 by mortimer : nope
that make no sense to me. ""Why have you hated me in your counsels"

agian . . out of left field, and you words not mine.  

12 Jul 2008 @ 15:48 by mx @ : 2 Mortimer (last time)
just do it

you know how to do Gunas, yes?

Not you, of course, but at least some of the globalist pseudo-mystics in power think they have to DO the ancient polarity prescription to OTHERS instead of neutralizing them for THEMSELVES.  

12 Jul 2008 @ 19:16 by Ed Dawson @ : The thunder perfect mind
it is a processing list (processing in those days was magick) that is quite old.  

12 Jul 2008 @ 21:17 by vaxen : Aha moment!
Love Is An Object Oriented Programming Language but, then, so is the 'STATE' of clear. State, non-state, progressions of illuions in a muddied stream. Leave them all behind and simply breath... in, out, in, out... naturally, then reverse the flow...

Nice stuff kiddies.

One can picture oneslef leaving ones' body jetting out beyond earths' atmosphere into deeper space. Turn around, look at planet earth for a few moments. Now turn your back on planet earth go out to where the winds are absolutely wild and free and... not.

You'll, of course, return eventually. Maybe you'll even meet those wonderfully golden energy clouds which speak in a language not English... yet perceived and understood fatasticomagically.

Magick basically means to make images. Oh, also to destroy them and to create them again in other shapes and forms and... Megaverses multidimensionally and beyond all dimensions too.

And so? I do like Roberts work... but that was so very long ago in a past which never really existed anyway! I like this thread, too, no if's, and's or but's about it!

Adios Freyres...  

12 Jul 2008 @ 23:09 by Ed Dawson @ : Only aware of own images?
Vaxen, your definition of Magick seems misleading. You say "images", but an image is a purely mental construct. The human brain generates an electrical field within which these images are formed.

But an image placed OUTSIDE of the body is more than an image; it is a field of energy that contains a small viewpoint, and this is a thoughtform.

An energy field has to be placed within a space, and a space can also be placed. Spaces are what Beings exist within. If you form a pocket space/pocket universe, you will either be there yourself, or will have placed an entity there. In Max's original article starting this thread, he mentions sattva (be), rajas (do) and tamas (have). This triad is always placed within a space of some sort in order for the triad to function.

Magick is working with spaces, fields and images, and the images are definitely the lowest order of function among them.

13 Jul 2008 @ 00:11 by fill-void @ : Minimal tools for awakening
Let me try, this really doesn't need a registration / licence to involve? Very sympa!

First my deepest thank you to Max. Your post and me have met in a moment where this statement of striving for clear spirit and soul communication has been a fantastic revelation to me. Maybe I met this concept earlier elsewhere, but if so, I just wasn't ready to duplicate it.

And regarding that I'd like to point to something. But first I have to give an ultrashort history of mine to give the statement a base. I did an Scn. bridge, the sometimes called CBR-bridge variety. It is (IMO) a very good bridge, but it has the (IMO) liability of all scientology and its roundabouts and follow-ups: it's stressing the development / disentangling of spirit and neglecting the development / disentangling of soul (I couldn't and wouldn't have said it in these words 4 hours ago, before reading your statement - "spirit" and "soul" were synonyms to me.) And I did this spirit-heavy bridge a most spirit-heavy way - I couldn't find a more or less steady comm-line wether to my body nor to my so called reactive mind nor to entities, except in some (to count on two hands) extremely traumatic situations. Thus my "own experience" was extremely small, most observation came to me via some hundred clients (over the years) via whom I processed engrams, bodies, entities ... Closest own perceptions were those of processing concepts (perhaps somewhat similar to processing unpersonalized goals). Then, about two years ago, I met T4R and Ed and polar dynamics, and in the blowup between the PD concepts and my own (which I had built mainly on the basis of the CBR bridge), I learned to a bit perceive "myself" (but still don't know who or what this myself exactly is - only know what it is not ...). It's some months now that I "coprocess" the questions of I, awareness and unawareness, agreement and disagreement (unagreement?), and the momentary culmination of it was to see that my "roots in static or Tao" have at least so much to do with unawareness and unagreement as with awareness and agreement. (Ed probably would call it the minus and plus development of the tone scale or so - you correct me if I'm wrong, Ed, will you?)

These days I was first coming to the point to associate unawareness with static, then - accelerated by some help of Ed and Mark on T4R - seeing that something must be however wrong with this, and fooling around with this I run across your statement. A revelation - gets things in place all around!

Now to my statement. It's based on a concept/model of the mind which is close to your "Above and below are interpretations of the mind ...". And it goes with the observation that, to a certain extent (which I hold for bigger than your picture in my mind, Ed, would allow - but perhaps you personnally correct me!), these interpretations can be before the fact of what they interprete.

So it is that definitions, explanations, etc. are more important than generally looked at in the "spiritual field". A good teacher can not only drive home morphic content which ties the recipients to their cinema seat with them, but also give such which make them create their own movie - or even makes them wonder what's outside the cinema. (To use an earlier story of you Max.)

Good processes are a good thing to do. But quite often I feel that - probably out of the fear to nail something down for them or to be too far over their heads - spiritual and even more SOUL concepts which could serve well are replaced by advising a process from which the teacher hopes the student will find himself a useable concept. Not giving up completely the Zen questioning, not answering tradition, but supplementing it with precise definitions and explanations, written not underway and by the way, but from the provisional end of the way by a master who has the overview.

So I vote for a fantastic glossary and explanation pack along with the "minimum line-up of tools" which works without teacher. More than a good operating instruction of the tools - a manual which is a tool in itself.

And a bit a more depictive one for contemporary people than the Kybalion, and which depicts also the soul for people like me.

At least that's my ideal scene. What I can do for it still lies for big parts buried in my soul - but this vision I could write instantly ...

Cheers, fill-void

PS Max, I tried to contact you several times during a year or so in minor matters and failed. Ed advised me recently to go to a skywork in Italy, and after this statement of yours I'm very interested. How do I go about to do that? Could you help me with an address or something?


13 Jul 2008 @ 00:38 by Mark @ : To MX
Looks to me that the first hing in the TOOLKIT should be a list of the definitions.
(At the moment there would probably be some differences between you and Ed. Let's take 'Soul'. Here is our current 'understanding': "- Soul has been used variously for 1. heart, or 2. body (GE), or 3. both, or 4. morphic fields. Sorry it's muddy. Lately I have personally been leaning toward using it only for Heart. But in Polar Dynamics we mean body + morphic fields. Tsk! What a mess, LOL!" (Ed, T4r, 13.12.2005, on energy bodies, in IVy)
2nd: outline the theory of what we want to achieve and how.
3rd: - give the techniques, including how to apply them, gradients and sequences.(We shouldn't forget EFT here).

13 Jul 2008 @ 00:42 by mx @ : e-mail me...
glad to read what you wrote !!!

the problem with teaching via words, orally or written, is that are filtered via the mind. That's where Skywork comes in: you can experience the forces, energies, etc, DIRECTLY and YOURSELF without or only little verbal interference.

In a workshop of 2 days I can show practically everybody convincingly the existence and presence of archetypes and prime energies with the tool of Skywork (and some talking, alright) which I believe otherwise would be impossible. Here in Brazil, a LOT of people talk about Orisha, and an amazing number of them is unable to recognize these forces in themselves as they made a belief system out of it instead of experiencing/witnessing directly.

I will send you an e-mail incl. an e-mail for the Italian Skyworkers in Milan. I myself and Heloisa are for some time in Brazil, but it's just a nightflight away :-)


13 Jul 2008 @ 02:40 by mortimer : I said Empathy
And i meant {|Empathy}

Sympathy should not be confused with empathy (more than simply the recognition of another's suffering, empathy is actually sharing another's suffering, if only briefly).  

13 Jul 2008 @ 03:43 by vaxen : Nicely...
put Ed. Having been an artist in the playing field of the arts I created images both from MEST and mental MEST and other forms of... thought.

Beyond thought the isness took care of the imaging thus manifestation took place almost by 'sleight of hand' which is oft associated with Magic(k) of the non Crowleyan (k after c [Knights of Columbus]) (A deep Therionic Mysterion/Mystes) variety. And... indeed it is - sleight of hand...

Beyond the impulse to imaging for the fun of it, and profit, I found a place without images at all. No word 'images,' no 'space' images, indeed not even any space, no viewpoints or any thoughts-thinging - at 'all (All-aha! O A-k-bar!)' - not even the form known as simplicity. Beyond Ain (0), the Ain Sof (00), beyond Ain Sof Aur (000) I got there through Absu (Daat)... do you know that that is that that isn't? The Dao that can be named is not the Dao? ;)

One can also 'be...' empa'theta'cally happy, sad, beyond all empathy thus empathising still, with the substance and essence of em-pathos (Pathos is the Greek word for 'feeling.') Em-Pathos simply means to be 'with' feeling or to vibrate in sympathy (Sym-Pathos/Feeling) (Share a like feeling) with an object of some MEST sort or mental MEST sort or beyond MEST sort or even non sort which remains to this day...unsortable in the land of forms and formlessness. Shen, Ki (Chi, Qi), Jen - of the Ki Gong Fu.

Hey, I appreciate Magick (Mage Ick) and only suggest the Yesh Min Ain of the Kabbalah Ha Yehudit as emblemetical of things both substantial, simple, real, and non substantial, simple, real. Theta, Anti-Theta, Syn-Theta.

Theta does mean something other than 'thought' in the Greek tongue - and it is also the Thet (Tet), of the Phoenician/Hebreic/English, etc., Alpha Beta. The interesting Numero Nueve! Three tri-angles. Three Deltas. Three in one. Most mysteriously 13 a hidden allusion to the Etz Hayeem. The ten basic Sephirotic Worlds or 'Spheres' plus the three veils afore alluded to in 0, 00, and 000. (ANd the hidden sphera Daat! ;) Making the ten eleven! Wherein the zero becomes the nekuda of the Araveem! The Arabs write their number one like this: . A period! Peridodically speaking, then...

How can we all have more of nothing which is a good thing which isn't even accustomed to being thinged at all cause... Thought (Thot or Thet or Theta) Thoth Hermes TrisMagistus is found at the spherah called sciintillating intelligence (Akin to shimmering light) Hod. As in Ain Hod which of course is similar to Ain (Source of) Kerem and Dual Karnaiin (Aradea and... Karnayna?).

Just playing as I am so wont to do when things get serious. Using my time ever so wisely like any good fool cause I'm not sure how long this Modem is going to keep on keepin on as it were we were zapped by a stray (ARC) of Elektra's best gifted unto us by the Blue Ridge Elctric Company yesterday whilst they were testing some underground lines which lead up into the sacred mounds... and,y es, they were tall and wore sunglasses. Small surge but enough to knock me offline and...

I digress. Love the thread... KSW? Scientia Logia? Oh, the Phoenician, and Proto Sinaitic Scripts both show Thet (Theta/Tet/9) as an X within an O. The O is, of course, Ayin and the X is Tao thus... OT! Probably the origin of X's and O's...

Hopefully I'll get back before the'release.' Clear is such a clear state - and lasts forever. But it is a state nevertheless. Native state is also a 'state.' We all know that any 'state' is but a legal fiction. But, I love Science Fiction!

Why isn't the map the territory? Maybe the map is really a multifractalic hollow graham? We eat theta clears for breakfast. Theta is a vibration as is Delta. We enter the Delta, Dalet, Door, Dar, via... theta at the 9th dynamic...Aes-Thetics. Care to venture forth a meaning for AES?? ;)

Gum 0, CCC 24, Ring 9999. R Factor Gums? First 12? ;) It ain't Dentyne! Or is it? Theta: 4Hz -7Hz.

The eXperience Entity of the Not Is'd Universe was selcted at the Game of the Gods to clean up our dirty MEST here in this god awful MEST trap. Hey, that means we are free to make new agreements! Lets do that. Simple, easy, forms, documents, letters, laws. things. You know...

Me? I hired some Henchmen. Some 'Gorillas' to do our dirty work. ;) Helatrobus lives! Snap, Crackle, Pop! Angel comes out, turns around, drops her pants and... moons you!  

13 Jul 2008 @ 03:59 by Mark @ : To Ed
Yes, that's what I mean. It doesn't happen in R3X and it could be handled.
A total key in of the bank will happen if more than one chain are in restim and the PC stuck in it ( IMO ) and/or - if the posession/significance of pictures as real personal FACSIMILES is enforced (which for a 'Clear' would be the equivalence of wrong ownership if I see this right, LOL ). This would cause the PC to believe that he is not stronger than the bank - equal a loss of the 'clear' state.
For both Dianetics is famous: As the tool is not fine enough, grinding occurs and in trying to evade the grinding the jumping in other chains. And: the rote procedure - specially of NED - enforces a compliance from the PC and gives the picture (as a real facsimile) a significance and importance that is wrong (fror a 'clear)and overwhelming.
Not so in R3X. Although it is much thorougher with taking all the charge off - it is done in a much freer way.
And: it is not necessary to have 'facsimiles' to audit R3X. (The 'pictures' in Pre MEST incidents e.g. can not really be called facsimiles anyway - can they? They are created 'above time' - - so 'still' beeing created in PT when touched...)
If I did not 'see' anything, Robert would have an arsenal of about a dozen questions to help to start to decompile the charge.
Just to mention one: "If you would see a picture, what kind of picture would it be? "
And if I throwed in, 'it's certainly a dub-in anyway' - I knew I would get the harsh answer: " I don't care!! ". So I stopped that :-))
And it works.

13 Jul 2008 @ 04:06 by mortimer : Yes *Feeling*
The term was adapted by Theodore Lipps to create the German word Einfühlung ("feeling into") from which the English term is then more directly derived. ~wiki
Without Empathy there is no Integrity.  

13 Jul 2008 @ 04:15 by Mark @ : To MX
Yes I understand. Practical experience would be MUCH better indeed.
But I live on Langkawi, an Island of Malaysia, in the tropical rainforest...
No way for me to go to Italy or Brazil. At the moment. :-((

13 Jul 2008 @ 04:18 by vaxen : Mark...
remember 'Reverie?' ;) Heh, heh...Facsimile's, of course. Fax me my Facsimile please or simply Telec that Dalec to my grinding hold. There we'll mock up some rice and beans and eat 'them' and pretend we're on the Apollo and we're all wearing dirty grey rags around our upper left/right arms. Mirroring bliss unto the seven seas for the CIA. (Cleveland Institute of Art.)

Mortie I knew that's what ya meant buddy... Tele Pathos (Feeling from afar.) AFAR? A Far Place? Or: Always Forward Always Ready. Heave Ho Ye Masters At Arms! WHOAT? ;)  

13 Jul 2008 @ 04:42 by mortimer : Vax...
I know you feel it Vaxen but I want all to see/feel it as well. Three men have falsely accused me of "overt" . . . Mirroring bliss? seems most beings don’t look in the mirror often hmmmmmm. I dont underestimate the power of the human heart, I got polarity and the mirrors don’t lie.
{ |‘’Ofun & Oturupon’’} is.  

13 Jul 2008 @ 15:18 by mx @ : definition of 'soul' and spirit
yes, the definitions are messed up. Intentionally??? And since when actually? Would be interesting to research a bit.

But just because they got messed up it doesn't mean now are the same. In languages other then English, the picture is much clearer as they still have the gender preserved: masculine are 'espirito, spirito, Geist', etc, feminine are 'anima. alma, Seele, etc'

People mess things up even in the Greek as well, quoting a bunch of contradicting translators. But pneuma is not psyche, eros is not thymos, the original contexts are totally clear on those as triads together with nous/logos.

But to start out with re-defining words is necessary for documenting all of this. Polar Dynamics 1 set a good example in that but it could/should be done even more extensively. Perhaps the disclaimer that soul and spirit are not the same embossed in every page? :-)

At least for the time being, until the great consummation, when everything folds back together anyway ;-)  

13 Jul 2008 @ 16:11 by Ed Dawson @ : To Mark and Vaxen

The words you used "more than one chain are in restim" are part of the problem I have communicating with you on this subject. They are pure dianetic-speak. What if the framework within which you think is unable to provide a clear map of the whole mind? In that case you would fail to understand. The solution is to switch paradigms (frameworks). This relates to Vaxen's playful question "Why isn't the map the territory?" The answer is that the map is a mental construct that is held inside the head as a mental picture of reality, while the territory is outside!

So I ask you Mark: what if the problem with these crashes (like the one TigerLily had) is NOT more than one chain in restim? What if it is something outside of the dianetic paradigm?

Dianetics runs incidents, most of which can be found on some sort of sequential reference system (AKA time track). What would happen if that time track were gone? And what might happen if the time track suddenly returned all at once, dropping every GPM in it onto the PC? That is the situation in these crashes I believe. The person swaps from no GPMs keyed in, to all GPMs keyed in.

One more remark on R3X, Mark. It is the best dianetics I have seen. But be very careful of treating it as the ONE solution to everything. Every one-solution I have seen has lead the user to a dead end. Konchok Penday and Palle Pederson come to mind as examples. UCP and Rising Needle have their uses, but are not universal solutions. Neither is R3X. For one thing it does not drill use of Primes, which an OT must be able to do.

And Vaxen, the map is not the territory because the territory is not a picture inside your head. ;-P

13 Jul 2008 @ 17:06 by Daniela @ : the tool bag
The tool bag needs an experience (without interference from the mind) of a skywork for reconciliation with its original lineage,race.

With the support of your original "soul" everything will be easier, including the spiritual way , religious way, scientific path or whatever is best for you to support the energy so that you can really begin to know yourself without mockup or fall back or otherwise. ..

Surely every tribe has its own taboos, its processing, we may well say their rituals. It's not the same for all paths.

Look! The skywork is often reconciliation. and once reconciled in a field, more
fertile, fecund and everything is more collaborative.

On the planet are available intelligences who know many things and may in a multiverse point of view assist both those who want to start from the North, and those who want to start from the South, and also those who wish not to
start by asking for help!

But it also important to accept those souls that are very angry, dense, sad and protesting and who need to see the first glimpse of the worst things that need to be recognized even by empathy ... also those tribes have a serious and profound sense. they have the THEIR REASON, and judgment is very far from their reality;

perhaps it becomes more difficult for those who listen in to look and accept what is considered shit ..

Perhaps an auditor has a opening via TRs. In any case, I can say that the
soul is "first", also in the sense that it is better for you first look towards your SOUL part ..

This is an intelligent solution and then she'll help & support you - she gives you wings and then if she is not angry you can fly to the spirit and let him know some good CSing :-)

There the overt, problems and arc breaks have another taste and other names, but in a skywork you can apply any process to know and ethically RESOLVE and

To MARK: you know the history of muhammad and the mountains? maybe
you can invite him? you know, the soul needs only an invitation :-)

Another tool: "warriors" (4 directions) with ARK|KRC flat ...

more in the future..  

13 Jul 2008 @ 17:46 by mortimer : wake up

"- aim at cristalyzing the basic truths of this Universe instead of adding to the complexity of existing thought systems, realizing that the very same basic laws govern all of the Universe;" ~ Manifest of Hermetic Ifá

"- live as a true friend ("Awo") to all living Beings, as true philosophers ("Friends of Sophia"), the cosmic principle of Odù and its polarities, and as dedicated students of Ifá, the knowledge of Fá which is beyond truths and lies." ~ Manifest of Hermetic Ifá

your friend,

13 Jul 2008 @ 18:07 by mortimer : definition of *soul* and *spirit*

Spirit (many goals)
Soul (one prime goal)

~ Emotional Art: {|Destiny}  

13 Jul 2008 @ 20:32 by mortimer : Accelerating Universe
Expansion of the Universe is speeding up... {|}

Yet Albert Einstein's relativity still applies here on Mother Earth.

Expand/Contract polarity still applies here on Mother Earth, the marketplace where you have opportunity to fulfill your potential destiny.  

13 Jul 2008 @ 21:31 by vaxen : Astute...
observation Edward:

"What would happen if that time track were gone? And what might happen if the time track suddenly returned all at once, dropping every GPM in it onto the PC? That is the situation in these crashes I believe."

We love to crash PC's for we are HACKERS! ;) Morphic brain mush fields innocently in no sense fielding our munitions to create a clime wherein we all can 'be' free of 'it' all! Basic, non essential, just 'so, id-ness/is-ness.' Most people don't even know how to breath correctly!

So... that's where I start.

Good points, mx, where translations, transliterations, iderations, garbage and junk, are concerned. In the Hebrew we find the Ruach (RUH) is feminine and the Neshama (Soul: from Linshom - to breath) are both feminine! But they have five parts to the damned non-thing/thing (Won't bore you with all that here...)! Ahahehihohu...

Beyond the clashing rocks of Iolcos? Corinthos, Saint Paul, and the Daemonon Ton Therion Eku! Great Mish Mash of ancilliary particles hidden in a gamma burst sequestered in the moon that came to earth so long ago bearing seeds of kindness and a new be - ginning up flax for the Kingston Trio - their marvelous warp and weave persuing .

No thingness save thingness alone which is not till it is...

Gotta go, for now, I feel the Urgos to crash another one of those pesky PC's which the now revealed, thankyou Edward, method that used to be hidden is outted like an old NOC!

That overt shall remain with me until the new Dawn bursts forth brillantly and renames me - Mud-child. Hats off to 'The Pilot.' And thankyou all for some marvelous restimulation! Hell, stimulation in any form is a great thing - old as I am! ;)

Anchors aweigh! Incidentally the boys over at the Cleveland Institute of Art know how to crash PC's and bring them back to par again in a jiffy! Hubby taught them how when he was there at Stanford (SRI) letting the big boys in on 'the Secret' of the ages ... they called him 'The Commodore' which is an interim rank in the Navy (ONI). YAHU!

*Note: To be edited later for spelling err-ors which most certainly are bound to have happened long ago. Filthy MEST! Grrrr!

*Note: Tigerlilly is, incidentally, doing fine on the composite case. Lovely people...  

14 Jul 2008 @ 00:52 by Mark @ : To Ed
Ed - the MU between us might be your rigid (old school-)understanding of 'incident'. Perhaps we should call it 'Experience'.
Perhaps also the old understanding in DN that you have to be 'inside'has a part here. Not true.
I have done the timebreaking process to EP. Doesn't change 'sequence'. But allows me to process things sometimes parallel without loosing track. (3 different 'incidents' in 3 different times plus an insight what it had to do with in this lifetime). When finding charge - in a sea of possibilities we look for something that makes sense to us (which is how and why we have to undo it). One possible way to do that, is the use of a 'story line' that develops itself (cycles of ations). Things have sequence and this sequence contains the 'inner logic of the Universe'(the polarities).
True or not true, mine or not mine. Who cares??
Can I discharge it and take the thing appart - that's the whole question.
And with R3X you can. Safely.

My words will never satisfy you - you will find new reasons 'why not'. You should have tried it when you were with Robert and go back and finish the thing - and not letting such details come in between like that 'you do not have facsimiles' or such things. :-)  

14 Jul 2008 @ 00:58 by Ed Dawson @ : Tigerlily
I know she is fine. Her crash was many years ago, around the same time I was in. Those were exciting days, though not as exciting as these. I have a much better handle on the GPM phemonena now.

Back then I couldn't find anyone in the church willing to explain to me what the hell a "GPM" was. Nowadays I could tell THEM more about the subject than Hubbard ever knew... LOL!

14 Jul 2008 @ 01:32 by mortimer : Time to Change
Ultimately the perception of time is illusion, therefore so is the 'sequence'.

The infinite little details of contextual truth are easy to break.
Fundamental truth does not break

You guys seem to have missed this part….'Minimal tool chest"
And this part too…
"- aim at crystallizing the basic truths of this Universe instead of adding to the complexity of existing thought systems, realizing that the very same basic laws govern all of the Universe;" ~ Max Sandor

Now how about a nice cold cup of time track tea….
Perhaps long ago our separating quality of truth was not big isu . . . But today we are polluted and our contextual truth is our major source of global imbalances.

Fundamental truth does not break

Mark & Ed, when you asked me to process your sheit, you then presumed I study scientology.

I am Tsalagi, and I am Ifa

Your friend,

14 Jul 2008 @ 03:33 by Mark @ : To Daniela
Hi Daniela,
You know, I am a Scientologist (FreeZone of course and not limited to SCN techniques) - but 'scientologists' have no soul. They loose it early in the training are have lost it allready before or perhaps never had one ( - and that's why there was no stop for them to become a scientologist). Anyway - I never missed it and never bothered to buy a new one - so don't try to save it - nothing there. If you think this is sad - then see the good side of it: how are beeings catched? By their 'souls'of course.



14 Jul 2008 @ 03:41 by Mark @ : To Mortimer
Let me ad this, Mortimer:

Empathy is fine. Liking to have Empathy is fine too. Needing to have Empathy - and protesting if one doesn't get the expected and desired Empathy - is case.
What you in fact do is refusing empathy to a non-empathy person.
So you work against your own principle and THAT makes you angry. (Mirroring). You refuse the other Beingness - only because he is not on the empathy train.

If you had some training in Scientology - (I doubt :-) ) - then it simply would mean you have a restimulation of an ARC X in regard to desired affinity.

Look at earlier similar with your daddy.

Oh - yes - and it's ok if you want to send me some negative empathy now...



14 Jul 2008 @ 04:02 by mortimer : actualy Mark
if I did not think Ed had potential for empathy then I would not waste my time. I do not think Ed means to hurt people.

You Mark, I just finding out about, and your condescending smiley face says a lot.

''angry...negative empathy'' . . your mirror image, not mine.  

14 Jul 2008 @ 04:29 by mx @ : The Fine Art of Successful Suffering
on this thread above, let me throw in something I wrote 10+ years ago:

The Fine Art of Successful Suffering
and also
The Bittersweet Truth About Suffering

Enjoy, NOOO!! Detest it, please. It's just too bad.  

14 Jul 2008 @ 04:30 by Mark @ : To Mortimer
Of course he has the potential - hei! - he is a NICE GUY - (I was on the T4R list for a few years and he can not fool me... LOL) but he might not choose to play on this string - and that's his freedom to do so or not do so...

Not having attention on Empathy and hurting people is not the same thing! Only the one will be hurt who needs Empathy (and he hurt's himself by insisting to get it).
Someone can just be 'neutral' - not clinging onto a 'realationsship' with everyone. (If we would have to have empathy with everyone - this would be a bit tiring...). No ?



14 Jul 2008 @ 04:33 by mortimer : cool
What I expresses is the falsely being accused of 'overt'.

Ed is a self proclaimed "Cast-Iron Asshole"
And I said I am cool with that, I am cool if he does not want to talk to me if that remains the 'case'.

Everything you do affects everybody. If you do not have empathy then you cannot calculate the long term consequences of your actions.  

14 Jul 2008 @ 04:47 by Mark @ : Addition to Ed about 'chain'
What a 'chain' is for me: Before starting processing something I have an 'item'. Something really heavy, overwhelming I want to resolve. Later I processing I might ask myself: does this thing I am running now (or that's coming up here) have anything to do wth my 'item,'? If yes, it's 'on the chain' for me.
That's the whole definition I have for this.

14 Jul 2008 @ 05:05 by mortimer : thanx Max
I look at those two links tonight.

The Gunas never neutralized my empathy nor would I ever apply a method that would condition me like that. Its not an overt Max, I have no secrets and i am not to proud to admit it when i make a mistake.
Here, this has been published on my newslog for over 6 months now…

" . . . . redlining the opposition from a fix strong position, from the heart." ~ Emotional Art  

14 Jul 2008 @ 05:10 by Chris @ : Game levels.
Ed said "exit is the only option. If one stays in the realm of decay, one decays."

This got me thinking about the Game levels. Thetan-located is a Piece, and as such, inevitably subject to decay, plus other fundamental limitations.

A "Local-god" (B-level (ie. naturally senior to physical-universe Morphic-fields), controlling a space, rather than being a 1st dynamic) is a Player, and as such, fundamentally outside the game (playing field), and fundamentally pan-existant as it is a controlling more than one Piece simultaneously (ie. has the roots of its functional awareness "senior to" Individuation (going in the "upwards direction")). It is not being a 1st dynamic (body, single-Viewpoint, playing piece) thus not cannot be subject to Engrams (however it can still have other types of Case, such as pervasive (non-anchor-point) Purposes).

But a Local-god can still decay . . . decay is much less likely than for a Thetan-located, but can still happen and be irreversable until processed.

Games-architects, games-creators, games-destroyers etc. are another level above that (in the "upwards direction"). I have only recently started to get some reality on functioning at these levels knowingly . . . currently I'd guess that they are not subject to the decay inside the physical-universe in the same ways that Thetan-located and Local-God are, because they are functionally senior to the rules (limitations) of the physical-universe such as the uni-directional time-flow (finite game) which is the cause of the inevitable decay inside the physical-universe.

Then again, from a different perspective, everything "junior to" Static (in either direction) is subject to decay. Also, universes senior to Static are, in their own context, also subject to (different forms of) decay! So While being a games-architect might be above certain types of physical-universe decay, it is still subject to types of decay.

As for spirit/soul definitions, I presume the point is the two directions . . . "upwards" towards order (spirit), and "downwards" towards chaos (soul?), both of which need to be processed and worked with, of course, as both are part of how we are functioning (cleanly or otherwise) junior to Static.

A very important point inthe approach to any of this is that completing processing of any one level (universe), before getting good awareness on, and starting processing, the level senior to that, is almost always a big disaster, because decay is usually inevitable and rapid. An example is this is an OT produced by processing a whole "Bridge". Such an OT can do things directly in the physical-u . . . for example can reach out and crack a planet by just doing so directly. BUT, if such an OT has not begun processing things senior to (in the upwards direction) the physical-u, then it will rapidly and inevitably crash. So, bottom-up processing (processing at approximately the level of the things one is processing) only, is a disaster. Some degree of top-down processing (knowingly processing from a level considerable senior to what you are processing), is the only way to ensure continued progress.

So, to summarise . . . to get stably free from the physical-u, one needs to process oneself up to at least knowingly functioning as games-architect, creator, destroyer etc., and by top-down processing already have some reality and processing done on levels senior to that.

(If anyone is interested in more details of any of the above . . . it's all been discussed on my Techs4reality Yahoogroup.)


14 Jul 2008 @ 05:40 by mortimer : acting out polarities
"{|All Things Are Non-Eternal}" ~ Siddharto
That is obviously a contextual truth but I get your point Max.

I am just a drummer, and that is my destiny, to be drummer. I am not a professional activist. Suffering is not my livelihood.

''Acting out polarities'' does not constitute an 'overt'  

14 Jul 2008 @ 15:35 by jhs : had to delete the last 2 comments
sorry enough I had to delete the last 2 comments as they were engaging in a personal conflict. This is a public forum, semi-permanent or at least of longer relevance than a Yahoo group or any such mailing list, I won't tolerate personal fights.
thanks for your cooperation!  

14 Jul 2008 @ 15:37 by jhs : overts & polarities
you wrote "'Acting out polarities'' does not constitute an 'overt'

my observation is kind of inverse and a definition/description of an overt could be:

"An overt is the dramatization of one extreme of a polarity"  

14 Jul 2008 @ 15:59 by mortimer : well
I am not a scientologist . . . my understanding of 'overt' moving out of the way, hiding something, secret.

I would appreciate a public apology on this thread for being falsely accused, the mirror don’t lie and you know that Max.

Yes, if that is the meaning of 'overt' then I am extremely honest.

If I don’t call bad character when I see it then that is ‘withholding’ . . . and (importent) if I don’t call bad character when I see it then I never know if it was *me or them*. That’s how emotional art works. The thing you don’t do in emotional art is start calling people names and using foul language, and also I do not give or accept ultimatums.  

14 Jul 2008 @ 19:50 by Conal @ : NOTS and R3X
I would first of all echo what Mark has to say about pictures/incidents. In the pre-mest area you are dealing with actual GPMs and polarities which are above time and hence cannot be conceived of in terms of incidents as such. Robert mentioned to me once that entities never (or very rarely) come up in his sessions and if they do it is only when auditing a scientologist who has been educated to think of case in these terms. When the incident is audited the entities disappear as they are only the shadows left over from the incomplete running of the incidents. For this reason, I consider that the whole NOTS case is simply a result of an incomplete application of dianetics i.e. dianetics not being run R3X style. I don't think that R3X is the one solution (and neither does Robert D; he advises use of positive gain processing as well) but it does deal with a lot of case in a remarkably effective way.


14 Jul 2008 @ 20:22 by Everlight @ : Minimal tool requirements for 'Awakening
Hello again Max.:) Its been years Ed and you are as passioned as ever. Hello Conal and Mark... good to see you here. Max invited me to his blog a while back and I am catching up on things I want to do... so here I am!
I agree with Conal and Mark. I am presently auditing by remote metering via phone and using R3X with my Pre-OTs that have done Scio Bridge and/or Ron's Org Bridge, etc... to the'top'. We are picking up and FLATTENING not just keying- out charge left behind by all other processes. We are also handling GPMs in short order. --Everlight  

14 Jul 2008 @ 21:17 by mx @ : back from a funeral: Nature or Morture?
Welcome Everlight! Nice to see you here :-)

just coming back from a funeral (and no, it wasn't for holding a speech!)

If I would have had to do so, I would have talked about Schopenhauer's view that instead of 'nature' we should speak of 'morture' since everything that is born must die.

Polarities, polarities...

to the recent discussions: if the ability of a Being to create and discard polarities in this Universe would NOT be enabled, it wouldn't matter how many incidents, whether pre-Mest, pre-kalpa (eon), or pre-mahakalpa, it would be just a matter of time (and let it be eons) until the Being would be in the soup again. Therefore, if in doubt in regards to time and effort available, I would always give preference to polarity processing. And not just to Pleroma as in PEAT but to full Girapoli effect (the 5th element (quintessence) superenergies that arrive from slowly rotating (quad)-poles. This is what the Being wants after all, the game-playing is only the way to get there. Negative processing is necessary to open the path but if it leads to illusions like some that are around in the scn-style processing field, it would be a dead-end.  

14 Jul 2008 @ 21:29 by mortimer : about that names
about three days ago, I asked elders to change my name. mortimer was a name that got pinned on me when i was in fourth grade and it was not until i joined newciv that jazzolog informed me what it meant.

You cant touch the computer keyboard without out polarity. Max Would you like a tour of Sandorian Grove, plenty of polarity so i dont understand your point?

I would appreciate a public apology on this thread for being falsely accused,

a small metal anglet, (chain on one leg) would ground these things and bring a state of empathy.
If you are interested Max i can share the recipe for cooking the anglet.
your friend,

14 Jul 2008 @ 21:57 by mx @ : about the name Mortimer
I don't know what the name Mortimer means, methinks it is an old name English nobility, Ed is an expert in those things. Would be interesting to know, hint, hint...

about apologies, public or private: I always wondered what part of a person would want such a thing as an apology. I never felt that urge in myself in my entire life. Not a single time. (And it's not that I not felt insulted at times.) So I'm curious to what I might be missing out!!!  

14 Jul 2008 @ 22:10 by mortimer : It means dummy
and also I don’t like the name Mike Smith either, seems to me my parents did not know me when I was born and I have a right to change my name.

I am like a snail, cool slow movement, but I am extremely thorough.
Would you like to change my newciv name Max?

I suppose it not the apology (as in forgiveness) in so much but,
to set the record straight to prevent death before my time.  

14 Jul 2008 @ 22:53 by mx @ : names for groups of souls...
(as a sidenote, I think no Earl in the medieval ages would have been called dummy, so Mortimer must have a much more noble connotations)

just in case, methinks using another name for soul faimilies, tribes, gangs, races, congregations, whatever. There is a lot of exciting research on those going on these days in Italy (via morphogenetic field processing, aka skywork), smashing a lot of stereotypes. In any case, people tend to confuse the body genetics with their soul ancestry which may be ok for 99% of all cases (a number to be determined better in the future) but not in the reset. Furthermore, we belong to more than one soul tribe. Musicians have their own tribes, geeks, tango dancers, etc, so we see a 'composite' soul mix, each of them with their own arc abilites but also arx breaks etc.

Let's have some brainstorming for a better denotation! I propose 'soul strands' as 'visually so to speak' they appear like worms in a worm culture but that wouldn't be polite to say, so 'strands' is a bit more elegant.


14 Jul 2008 @ 23:14 by Everlight @ : names for groups of souls...
Ah... then you suggest that souls have their own sort of DNA strands... "Soul strands". Indeed, very elegant, dear Max :) I can also see the inherent polarities. -- Everlight  

14 Jul 2008 @ 23:44 by Ed Dawson @ : EVERLIGHT!
Hi Elaine! It's been years! It's great to see a message from you! Heh heh, yes Max and I are still as passionate as ever. I prefer the word "intense". LOL!

Hey Mark, I wasn't saying that R3X would CAUSE the track to key out. I meant what do you do if you encounter someone in that condition? Zivo is producing these, with that past/future rundown of his.

Specifically and to the point (i.e. not conjecturally): has any past/future rundown completion actually been processed after P/F rundown using R3X? And if so, what happened?

I am NOT certain that R3X dianetics is a disaster for such a person, but I am very distrustful. If you had heard the horror stories from Flag (when Flag was on a ship) you'd be biting your lip too...

And what Mark said about the Academy stealing the student's soul can be pretty true. When I was on course at ASHO the Sea Org supervisor tried to turn me into a soulless auditing robot. No dice. I revolted. I am far too passionate to ever be roboticized. Course sup (may he burn in hell) threw me out. But too late: I had already learned how to audit!!!

Hey Vaxen! Hitler had his Brown Shirts. Hubbard had Blue Shirts. LOL! ;-)

15 Jul 2008 @ 00:25 by mortimer : Edgar Bergen,
the radio program, Bergen developed other characters, notably the slow-witted Mortimer Snerd

Maybe it is about 'soul tribe', but acknowledging that does not reconcile the suppression.

Seems some people can dish it out but dont have the skin to take it.  

15 Jul 2008 @ 01:07 by mortimer : Mirror's
Box of mirror's Inside a box of mirror's. is that 8 dim?

The x axis is reversed right to left in the physical mirror and the z axis is reversed top to bottom in the spiritual mirror.

Max, that comment you deleted, I was being nice, this thing is that ugly, hence I have only started to reveal it. People are free to be responsible, they are free to heal themselves.

Now is the 'new dawn',
All has been inverted.

your friend,

15 Jul 2008 @ 01:35 by Ed Dawson @ : SOUL FAMILIES
Hi Max. I've been nosing around in this too. Soul families roughly follow Hubbard's list of 8 dynamics. (SIDEBAR: Odd to see so many years later that he was sort of right about the 8 dynamics, even though he was wrong about the dynamic urge being only "survive". He was mixing the pattern of morphic fields, with the Prime urge(s). There are 16 of them of course, where he saw only one of the 16. But the pattern of dynamics perfectly describes the hierarchy of morphic fields, which operate by dominance/submission. END SIDEBAR.)

Most of the visible complexity seems to be in the 3rd dynamic area. This is where various non-genetic "tribes" are found, while genetic tribes are subgroups in the 4th dynamic.

15 Jul 2008 @ 02:31 by mortimer : SIDEBAR
""We need to act HERE and NOW, regardless of circumstances, leaving 'hoping' & waiting' to the losers and slaves. And in this aspect, also those who think of themselves as being 'above' the uncivilized masses, are nothing but slaves."" ~ Sandor

(400) {|wiki Articles related to discrimination.} . . . browse & Take a good look in the mirror.

welcome to the 'new dawn'

your friend,

15 Jul 2008 @ 02:32 by mx @ : goals of soul branches
Another candidate for a name change would be `branches´ of soul. hmm...

'survive' as a goal is a mental rationalization. The direct observation shows an urge to 'go forward' and interestingly enough the recent Skyworks in Italy showed exactly that (if I understood the reports correctly).

Another most interesting result is the emphasis on "tradition" NOT being a major item for soul branches. This goes very much against mainstream opinion but goes hand in hand with my own observation in the past that "authenticity" is at least a 100 times more valued than a "tradition attitude". Traditions are created by minds that want to dominate (or being enslaved) not by "ancestors".

Another hot button that I see entirely in the domain of the mind is *honor" which I believe to be mental implants to make people do things for a group that normally they would never do, like killing other people and be proud of it. That would be one of the next things to verify/demonstrate with Skywork, hint hint (I had to skip today's Skywork for logistical reasons. I somehow escaped that thing early on, perhaps that's why I can't find in me an urge to demand an apology from anybody.

Comments welcomed!  

15 Jul 2008 @ 02:37 by mortimer : heart beat
"" 'survive' as a goal is a mental rationalization. The direct observation shows an urge to 'go forward' and interestingly enough the recent Skyworks in Italy showed exactly that (if I understood the reports correctly). "" ~ Sandor

Then why does the heart beat?
seems to me that . . Ori Inu and Heart are two different things

Emotional Art is a ''tradition'' that levels the playing field. It cannot be used to dominate because it is inherent in design to backfire bad character.

hint hint, all will be reconciled either the easy way or the hard way. I do not offer ultimatums, do what you feel you got to do. I did not demand it Max, *please don’t insinuate words in my mouth, what I said was. . . I would ‘’appreciate’’ apology.

your friend,

15 Jul 2008 @ 03:41 by mx @ : ...and the beat goes on..
the heart beat is for me a good example of why 'survive' is a rationalization. The heart beats to go forward in time. It won't stop going forward (hopefully that is).
PS to Mortimer: perhaps you should specify from whom you would appreciate an apology (or is it only from Ed? - I deleted his comment to your comment, too, not just yours).

Last not least, we are all here to learn from each other. Let's just continue to exchange our viewpoints.  

15 Jul 2008 @ 05:56 by mortimer : time to rest
I am going to sleep on it, just making a spot here where I can comment tomorrow.(Honor Pride and Empathy)
What are the difference and or relationship between worship and honor?

People in my neighborhood don’t get the luxury of apologizing. It was wrong of me to offer an exception, a ‘’double standard’’.
PS to Max, for the best interest of all. I offered a way to close the door on the isu, and that’s why I mentioned it twice, hence only twice. That door of opportunity closed at exactly 14 Jul 2008 @ 22:53. This isu no longer my problem.

*soul purpose*
soul worship
soul print
soul mark
soul juju
soul mojo
soul life
soul meaning
soul central
soul mission
soul natural
soul pursuit
soul being
soul fidelity
soul inherent
soul value
soul level
soul continuity
soul desire
soul talent
soul offspring
soul family

soul friend,

15 Jul 2008 @ 15:30 by Daniela @ : downloading heartbeats to the system...
Max you understand it well. (my flow was confused my river still needs some purification :-))

... I want to give a picture of it. if someone could imagine a beating heart that downloads a ceaseless rhythm (similar to a heartbeat) on a network
(similar to a neuronal) and creates a vibratory movement,

It may have to face a hostime system tribe?. ... (oturarete?)

The movement of the body, dance, music, intellectual activity, brain waves, all talk is a visible phenomenon and a scope of the will of the soul and its
derivatives. Only this!

But if the original vibrating flow is interrupted or disturbed and not clean arrives at destination, it's not about apologizing ... it should only find out how to divert the bed of the river so that the water reaches the terminal or to buy a enormous purifier (processing/ritual ?) HAh!

If the terminal is eliminated and in his place is a "mind" then the answers will be programmed and related to a track to a memory that, sorry, is obsolete.
(I do not want to say that does not exist :-))

...and instead of dancing to the rhythm . enjoy hearing sounds of nature ...we puppets react to shots and answer schemes .. I have seen this.

Perhaps if you are talking about this topic you may have simply received an input and have had the urge to do this. with power, communication, and vibration something is born.  

15 Jul 2008 @ 18:12 by Colleen K. Peltomaa @ : RE: Stereotypical Archetypes
You wrote: "They too are bound by the preprogrammed movements of their soul families, following the stereotypes of their spiritual archetypes like puppets on a string, predictable even though they fantasize of having a free will."

My observation on that is I have not yet met anyone who was not true to their "assigned" astrological archetype to a great enough degree that I could name their assigned sign just by watching and listening to them. Myself included. I am wondering what I would have to go in and process (i.e., what energy ridges need to be addressed) to free a person from this compulsive acting out of preordained identities. My guess is that somewhere on the time track we got together as a committee and mathematically formulated different personae.

Any comments?  

15 Jul 2008 @ 20:26 by mx @ : classes of archetypes, memes, soul tribe
I found it necessary to differentiate between the soul tribe motivations determined by the energy of the moment of birth ("astrology"), and the meme strands governed by cultural embedding, and further by the spiritual archetypes (Orisha, archons, or whatever they were called in the past).

To transcend these three inherited limitations is my goal with Hermetic Ifâ.

There is the view in some 'secret' doctrins that the very first Being (e.g. Messiah) signifies the "end of the game" because this would have been the purpose of creation. To bring about 'free will'. Nicely illustrated&dramatized in the 'Matrix' movies.

And, yes, it is about group agreement, councils, and yes there is a mathematics behind it, for me best represented by a cellular automata of the 256 Wolfram type, for Tony Smith, for example, also the paradigm of the Clifford Cl(8) algebra, the latter difficult to comprehend without deep involvement into that field of mathematics. Some new inroads were made recently by Smith, for example, in pointing out a possible mathematical connection of the energy classes to the archetypes based on the works by Ibn Arabi.

Most of here focus on less math and more direct observations, such as individual processing and 'Morphic Field Processing' (Skywork).

In any case, the questions you touch upon are what is presented and sometimes brainstormed upon.

Glad to hear your voice here. Welcome to the club :-)  

15 Jul 2008 @ 22:03 by mortimer : Yes Daniela
it's not about apologizing, bad choice of words on my part, I'm sorry.

you remind of the 'water against mountain’

your friend

15 Jul 2008 @ 22:49 by mortimer : Colleen K. Peltomaa - archetypes
Everybody is doing it, whether they realize it or not.
Everybody is being archetypes.

The online initiation is most effective.

"On the time track we got together as a committee and mathematically formulated different personae." ~Peltomaa

Yes, the Mother Nature committee, the rocks, rivers, mountains, and wild flowers, etc etc.

Now is the ‘new dawn’,
All has been inverted

(PS Max, there's no "end of the game")

Your friend,

15 Jul 2008 @ 23:44 by mortimer : Field of Agreements
Either agree or disagree, to ignore something is a form of agreement to disagree.  

16 Jul 2008 @ 00:25 by mx @ : Soultribes as outflow of genetic tribes
one puzzling thing is still for me the observation of 'musician soul tribes' which I noticed for me without thinking to much about it but which surprisingly was also STRONGLY affirmed in recent Skywork (morphogenetic field processing) sessions in Italy. There are instrument specific soul tribes and genre-specific ones. They appear at first glance independent of the current genetic composition but one can safely assume that at least some of them moved forward with the genes of one's own body.

One idea that came across to me today is the possibility of those 'task specific' soul tribes carrying forward the intention of tribes that were originally genetic tribes, for example as outflow of past society structures known as 'castes'.

Some time ago I looked into the similarities of the Northbrazilian music of the 'Repentistas' with Indian music, in especially recordings I made in the early 90s of Bhagavad Gita recitations in Mumbai, and the Genovese dialect and music carried forward by de André in Italy, reviving my old pet idea of the true function of the 'Camino de Santiago' as an escape route to the 'promised land' Brasile in the time before and around the 'discovery' of the American continent(s) that carried, amongst others, also 'troubadors' from Europe via Santiago de Compostella (or, more likely, Porto!!) into liberty, an idea already fostered by Heloisa independently from my own investigations.

The original line may have come from the Ḍom-Mirasi in Southwest India (Rajasthan and the Punjab), a caste of bards, via the Romani 'gyspsies' to East-and Central Europe. (see for some interesting speculations!)

In short, soul tribes such as 'bards&musicians', may be in existence because of 'real' ancient genetic tribes or castes that carry their memes forward.

As times allow, I'll dedicate more time to the specific example above..

For now, sharing these thoughts may spark some new ideas in the field.. or at least come some inspirations for future 'Skyworks' and individual research...  

16 Jul 2008 @ 00:48 by mortimer : Energy conversion
Asé can be gained by the ability to convert and move energy. This ability is not limited by genetic composition. Modern Rock & Roll for example, is based on the blues step, from the fundamental to the 4th and 5th step, which is based on the cotton field songs slaves’ sang while working, which is based on African roots.

My conga drums are tuned to the 4th or 5th, 'here comes the bride'. This tuning creates and releases a tension which brings pleasure, its ancient wisdom. I did not figure this stuff out.

PS. . Glad to see Tony's site is up and working again.  

16 Jul 2008 @ 01:12 by mx @ : you've got the blues (or not)
during an afternoon workshop on Ifá by Awo Falokun in Chicago 8 yrs ago or so, I heard on old Babalawo sing some patakis (Ifá stories) as a BLUES, it was such an incredibly experience, unbelievable.

And yes, Mortimer, Blues is an excellent example.. it's an Eshu invocation, 3 times 4 = 12. All the early Blues songs were about some Mojo bag.. hehe...  

16 Jul 2008 @ 01:18 by mortimer : Blues
I was surprised to find quality video of these two playing together.. Muddy Waters & Sonny Boy Williamson -

Eshu invocation, 3 times 4 = 12 . . . i had not thought of it that being Isu but sounds logical.
interesting thing about that 12 is dont matter if you play 6/8 or 4/4 caues it returns at 12


the guy on keyboards might start throwing stuff tho.  

16 Jul 2008 @ 01:32 by Al Diaz @ : Just an observer
I read with great interest your post and some of the comments. Especially: "'Awakening as a Being" necessitates LEAVING the pathways of the past and its lies and falsifications"

I declare often as a master of my BEingness that I only bring forth the Love of my past and of my ancestry, so that I may function and live in original innocence.

Ilumine Ao,
Al Diaz  

16 Jul 2008 @ 03:43 by mx @ : right and right :-)

I like your declaration! It is integer and honest. At the same time, our ancestors want us to go forward and do NEW things. Not repeating the same old sh..

the lies and falsifications never come from the ancestry.. nothing could be more innocent as they are simply what they truly were... I referred to the representations of the past in modern "history"

will read your book ..

all the best

16 Jul 2008 @ 08:19 by daniela @ : "live in original innocence"
yes ! it was showed into sky(work)too. not only once, more time. it is what I mean when I wrote "it's not about apologizing ". live like babies and elders in the same time without the weight of the past or what one has done. sense of responsibility has a different taste.  

16 Jul 2008 @ 10:21 by mortimer : soul tribes
Max is correct, i did not see it at first but now i do, it's about ''soul offspring''.

Emotional Art simply works, there is no more hiding.

Now is the 'new dawn'

{|mountians in our way}

your friend, where the clear winds blow,

16 Jul 2008 @ 15:05 by mortimer : Soultribes
Nobody is born with evil heart. Soultribes are Modified Redlines

redlining -

your friend,

16 Jul 2008 @ 16:11 by vaxen : Reverse Polarity
A condition of ``reverse polarity," (google it), will not affect voice transmission but... it will affect data transmission.

Apply the principle to the human meat puppet/bio organism and you'll solve a lot of problems. Tip and Ring connectors are important for voice and data transmission and the principle. when applied to therapy, getting the being(thetan) back to Native State (Total data and bio-organism 'electron wave-particle' flow in harmony with the megaverse and beyond) becomes much easier when fully understood. Thus... dance therapy, touch therapy, etc., Anything which reverses a 'state of reverse polarity' will be healing and...

Bad wiring can be oh so upsetting! Remember that the words apple and evil share a common Indo/Proto European root vis a vis "UPFEL!"

So this is just a test casue my telephone lines, thus internet connection, are exibiting a 'condition of reversed polarity.' ;) Hope you don't mind this little interjection. Solve Et Coagula. Oderunt Dum Metuant. Moritori Te Salutamus! ;)


PS: Mortimer san: As far as minimal toolchest I believe we are getting there. I like to use a voltmeter with a 50 VDC scale. ;)

Also baking soda, white or distilled vinegar and a few other odds and ends... like que tips. ;) Heh, heh... Marvelous!

These are much more exciting times, Edward, and you sure could tell a lot of people a ,lot about GPM's. Polarity is such an interesting study. The human bionorm is based on Electromagnetic principles. Now with quantum you can get down to the rarebit level and do some real manifestation and manipulation of subbtle MEST as well as the darker/heavier varieties thus ridding selves of unwanted 'conditions' or states of being such as 'reverse polarity, for instance. Thus a better communication is had by all... or should I say 'shared?' Networking beyond the kosmoi, mega, meta, multi verses and even beyond the beyond...

Waveparticles happily particlewaving beyond anything dreamt of heretofore with the exception, possibly of The Vedas. Tata Volk.

Still testing the 'connection...'


Division 7
Department 21  

16 Jul 2008 @ 19:08 by mx @ : reverse polarity (poem)
following Vaxen's advice to google 'reverse pokarity' and found this :

John Estes

Reverse Polarity

Because we shrink
the unknown by knowing
and wash dishes
to empty the sink for dishes

Maybe it takes a shock
to the neutron flow
to finally hear what thinking
sounds like or to excise
at least one eon
out of eons and eons
or to land a memorable blow
to our historical sense
that the fossilized sentience
of each sentient being
is magnetically recorded
in shifting tectonic
records of the ocean floor

The sunset curse on
those who feel
a need to duplicate
the world is set to expire

The culprit for this
for everything out of tune:
a word turned edgewise
insert here  

17 Jul 2008 @ 02:43 by Everlight @ : Dance with Death (Poem)
Inspired by my September 2007 heart attack... and to encourage friends/family and friends of friends who are facing that dance due to illness.

Dance with Death

To dance with death
In dips and leaps
In twirls and tips
With balance keeps
As reed I bend
But do not break
Nor be effect
Cause point make.

I do not wait
For some to come
To take me to
Or lead me from
I choose to see
The way ahead
My choice to Be
When form is dead.

With clear sight see
The way is free
Of traps and lies
From those deceive
With misdirect
At cycle ending
It is your choice
No lie defending.

From Nothing is
A new start Be
Creating options
A game ...yet free
Create and play
New rules to win
No further death
Non existent sin.

So dance with death
And you will be
An able Being
Forever free
It will be fun
No boredom here
There truly is
Nothing to fear.

-- Everlight
01 March 2008  

17 Jul 2008 @ 03:27 by vaxen : Mx & Everlight
Thankyou both, so much, for these beautiful and inspiring words. As Eckart Tolle is wont to say it's time for time to end. ;) Love you all... Brilliant and relative and oh so... truly Scientological. ;) Here's to the Free Zone forever! Yahu! Blessed be ye...

The sunset curse on
those who feel
a need to duplicate
the world is set to expire

With clear sight see
The way is free
Of traps and lies
From those deceive
With misdirect
At cycle ending
It is your choice
No lie defending.

Division 7
Department 21


17 Jul 2008 @ 04:34 by mortimer : aw-struct true wonder
your divination is only as effective as your World View.

we expand
the unknown by knowing

trust the Universe
trust the Universe
do something

your friend,

17 Jul 2008 @ 05:15 by Everlight @ : Communication vs. Individuation
The follow discussion resulted from a quote I had posted on another Scio list:

1st Melbourne ACC 9 November1959 [...] "Do you know that all that's wrong with some fellow who has a cancerous hip is that his hip has individuated from the rest of the body? The only thing that's wrong with a fellow with a bad stomach is that his stomach has individuated from the rest of the body. That's all. It's out of communication and everything is out of communication with it.
"And why do you think injuries go away because you start communicating with
them? See, all you do with communication is knock out the individuation to a
marked degree. You as-is some of the individuation and hiddenness of that part. You bring it back into communication and you bring it back into circulation and the next thing you know, why, somebody gets well."

Hello D

Thank you. I am going to share this discussion and data with another list. This was an interesting article by Caroline Markolin PhD about the research on cancer and other diseases by Dr. Ryke Geerd Hamer MD:

"Dr. Hamer found that every DISEASE originates from an unexpected shock experience. He established that such a sudden shock affects not only the psyche, but impacts at the same time (visible on a brain scan) the part of the brain that corresponds biologically to the specific trauma. Whether the body responds to the unexpected event with a tumor growth (cancer), with tissue degeneration, or with functional loss, is determined by the exact type of conflict shock. So far, Dr. Hamer has been able to confirm these discoveries with over 40,000 case studies. Since HEALING can only occur after the conflict has been resolved, German New Medicine therapy focuses on identifying and
resolving the original shock. "

I see no disagreement with this article in that THE SHOCK MOMENT is very necessary to address as we do with R3X. With the added precision from Magnus' Radionic assessment, I would think Dr. Hamer may consider using R3X Tech, as developed by Robert Ducharme, in helping all his patients, including his cancer patients. You suggest these articles will provide me with a "whole new dimension of understanding." Interesting, Yes! -- A "whole new dimension of understanding." Nah!

I also have experience dealing with a direct attack from a cancer research organization that had vested interest in keeping people dying of cancer. That group covertly funded attacks against Dianetic and Scio auditing. I was sent to a Class VI Org to discover why they were having many internal upset. I did a D of P (a metered interview) on one of their public and discovered he
had been sent in by certain organizations to disrupt the Org and compromise and bribe low earning staff. He proudly got this off and said no one would believe me as he was programmed NOT to read on an e-meter. I managed to get the reads anyway! :) I hope Dr. Hamer fairs betters and does not get attacked.
-- Everlight  

17 Jul 2008 @ 10:25 by Luc @ : to AL DIAZ : Just an obsever
Thank for your simple and nice words.

After recent skyworks, a nice picture of the game as observer appeared to me. First taking away some strong emotions regarding attachemnts and so on, some details came and let me understand something more about the game. It is a semplification if one have a look into a popular video-game "TETRIS".

First there is a declaration of the segment(coluor, type, shape ...) that is going to enter into the game. Immediately after that the player ( or observer) can change the position and is able to rotate the segment. I see it as living a life where one can change his destiny bringing some elements of the original choice and where the ARC is a part of the game as tool for travelling through the time that is running in the meantime. The goal is to achieve at the end the M-G field that is waiting for it. Time to time the segment arrives at destination and suddenly is a part of the M-G field ; any action , choice and position of the previous step will effect the new situation . Eventual previous ARC breaks/problems etc.. will now effect the field and will give a new shape of the field. Player can have other oppurtunities(segments) to change the field , other section , other new lifes but.... incredible .... anomaly elements are coming : auditing, divination, skywork etc. They are working to repair DIRECTLY the M-G field where the ARC breaks are "frozen" without the same feeling of the passing time and where emotions are distorced than the world of MID-LAND.

Aware or not, Ancestors and group-of soul are wondering and happy to have the possibility to re-allingn the old , past ARC break but best of all, our MID-LAND world become a bit better in the meantime.  

17 Jul 2008 @ 15:28 by mx @ : wise words from and to MIDLAND&sheldrake
first of all, I am glad that the discussions continues here and on such a high level!

In the beginnings, I thought that the name "Milano" was for the bird(s), a mixture of hawk and eagle . Then I learned it means "Land in the middle" and now Lucio enters yet another twist to OUR realm of acting, "aiye" IS the land in the middle, yes, MIDLAND.. thanks, Lucio

Rupert Sheldrake, who coined the name 'morphogenetic fields', has put up 3 series onto, for example , all worth seeing (but with a surprisingly low number of views). A MUST-SEE, methinks, even though I don't agree with everything he says.

and thanks Everlight for your ever so nice words.  

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