The Sandorian Grove: Discrete Vs Structural Processing    
 Discrete Vs Structural Processing9 comments
picture18 Jul 2008 @ 14:00, by Max Sandor

Thank you all for the comments to my recent contemplations at [link] !

During the process of assessing and verifying our past successful actions, after many, many hours of exchanging ideas with my female counterpart Heloisa, it feels necessary to outline an evaluation towards that I gravitated for some time and that is now much clearer to me:

We see in the discussion of discrete processing (incidents/events in time) versus structural processing, (meaning generic oppositions, polarities, primes, GPMs, Odu, or whatever you may call it) yet another instance of particle/wave opposition, spirit/soul, masculine/feminine, yang/yin, shiva/shakti, or whatever you may call it.

Observation demonstrates clearly that discrete processing does NOT lead to reconciliation between spirit and soul and, even worse, may aid to the DENIAL of the other's side existence. Typically the Being, over time, gravitates towards the spirit side, and in the end is identifying itself exclusively with that view and assuming a perceived dominance over the soul part (scn lingo: theta controlling MEST). In some philosophies, the spirit delegates this honor to the child of soul & spirit, thus we get "mind over matter". In both cases we witness the phenomenon of "arrogance" arising to a degree that appears destructive, and in the end self-destructive, both on an individual level as on the global level of civilization on Earth.

On the other hand, it seems very difficult to arrive at a clearer view of things without removing at the very least the most heavy charges from past incidents and a 'structural-only' processing would simply enter the other (op)position.

An obvious solution, as always, would be to either do both kinds of processing, sort of in parallel, or, if it were possible, create processes to integrate both aspects.

Certainly, many are already calling for a healthy balance of "positive and negative" processing, meaning not only REMOVING obstacles in the form of charges and considerations, but also ADDING positive abilities (creative processing). Observation of the field shows clearly that in the end, the negative processing takes up practically all the time and resources for the aspiring person and positive processing, for most, is being neglected. On top of this, positive processing, if it doesn't involve the soul and spirit dichotomy of the personality, will not aid in transparency either but gravitate towards an exclusive spirit-view as well.

The temporal "freedom" from internal and external conflict is desirable and necessary in order to go ahead. But if the STRUCTURE OF CONFLICT has NOT been resolved in the process, the "charge" can be recreated at any given time in the future.

Before proposing an integrative solution, let us briefly review the case of 'case':

First, let us avoid the chicken&egg problem of whether matter arises from an act of spirit or if spirit is ascended from 'earth element' or if even matter would be condensed thought, that means created by the brainchild of soul and spirit, the mind.

Instead, as a constantation of existing circumstances, we find both form and essence, idea and matter, spirit and soul, as basic elements in our world, each seemingly trying to dominate the other, often to the point of even accepting destruction of the whole system in order to be right.

In my evaluation of the situation, the basic problem consists of a miscommunication between the two. One could try to explain the communication breakdown "system-mechanically" by the difference in their "communication lags", in other words, spirit expects its ideas to be materialized instantaneously whereas soul needs a certain time frame to shape itself into a physical similarity to the given idea. The resulting irritation with each other escalates quickly along a known scale to a rupture in affinity and finally into attempts to dominate the other side completely, and, if the attempt failed, to DENY the existence of the other pole.

But let's also put the latter speculation aside and let us focus on how to expand processing in general to assist the resolution of any type of conflict of soul and spirit.

The following applies to all such conflicts, whether within a single individual or entire large social structures; actually it is postulated that it applies to any and all structures.

[The Concur Principle (Steingrubner, 1990) postulates that any possible manifestation is repetitively subdividable into two components (of the yin/yang kind) with the number of repetitions determining the resolution (in a technical sense) of the model and that such a representation constitutes the minimal model of the manifestation. More on this at another time.]

It is proposed to expand any process, discrete or structural:

3-Steps-Expansion (repetitive until the underlying conflict is resolved)

1. identify both INTERNAL "sides" (soul and spirit) in the conflict

2. if applicable, determine which of the EXTERNAL sides represent predominantly soul or spirit.

Note: every side itself is a mixture of both soul&spirit but in a conflict the sides will represent either soul or spirit. Just determining this polarization correctly can discharge a conflict but it is not always that simple as it can result in a new war. The classic example is of course the Victim/Aggressor polarity, overt-motivator sequences, etc. One could see it as the basic soul/spirit conflict in itself as it arises out of the super-(pseudo)polarity of "cause & effect".

3. Reestablish a communication line between the two parties, at least to the point to concede "that the other side exists".

Some may argue that the above considerations would only be of theoretical nature.

But any conflict, partnership, war, business, marriage, sport, was, is, and will be invariably based on the two poles of THE basic polarity. And just as one more hint, as it was accepted knowledge in ancient times, especially in India and China, human illness on any level and in any kind is being recognized more and more as a conflict of left and right brain hemispheres, which is clearly an outflow of THE basic polarity of this Universe. Without going so far that the above would constitute a practical and/or instant solution for many such cases, it should in any case be addressed in order to reduce the chance of future repetitions as it reflects the underlying condition of the internal or external conflict.

Lastly, to emphasize once more, the above has been evaluated for all kind of processes, whether "scientific", "technical", or "psychological/spiritual" known to Heloisa and myself, and is therefore significant on all levels, applicable not only on an individual level but also for groups and global peace.

It is not enough to patch up the past, it is necessary to change the present in such a way as to minimize conflicts in the future.

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18 Jul 2008 @ 18:07 by mx @ : clarification & to Mortimer
to clarify (in addition to the Minimal Toolset thread), there is no need to invalidate anything that is useful. It is about establishing a minimum set of requirements. Ironically the new proposal (which needs much work to be better communicated to a broader audience), is ADDING something. But it also has a much, much larger scope.

Hi Mortimer, I don't understand your earlier remarks and they were inappropriate for this thread. I took the liberty to delete it. Pls e-mail me directly! What is 'Manifest Destiny'? And what would it have to do with me? thanks mx  

19 Jul 2008 @ 00:39 by Ed Dawson @ : Concur doubled, relations between splits
The trees of binary splits you described in your Concur doctoral thesis are correct, but I venture there is more happening at each binary split than initially meets the eye. Working with observations first (not ideas first) I noticed strong interactions between the poles of any split. It is as if the poles are alive and struggling with their separation from each other. Indeed, they desire to reunite, attempt to force reunion, inhibit the same, deny any such split exists (as you mention above), and continue down the entire unhappy CDEI scale in this fashion.

Peculiar things occur when the splits interact. They "dirty" each other, as you yourself observed when using gunas as a process for yourself and others. In this dirtying, one pole or the other will dominate. This entire pattern is itself the Zousel diagram of plus-plus, plus-minus, minus-plus and minus-minus. By observation of orisha archetypes I notice that when spirit dominates (plus-minus) the orisha path leads to decay; conversely when the soul dominates (minus-plus) there is renewal and redemption. Examples of these in the Shango Complex are:
(plus-minus) - Shango king of Oyo, whose ego-based life went to hell in the end.
(minus-plus) - Shonponna (Omolu), whose life went to hell early, then by learning herbs and magic he recovered.

So to sum up, the important part of dealing with polarities is to identify the specific TYPE of mixing of poles which has occurred. This will tell you whether the relation will decay further, or recover itself.

On this subject let's get even more specific. If then the mind is a mixing of spirit and soul, then which is dominant? If spirit is dominant the mind will decay and get worse. If soul is dominant then the mind will enter the dark night of the soul and recover itself by blowing through the bottom and emerge at the top again.

So how to tell which is dominating? I venture that this is like an odu: which one comes first! So soul work should precede spirit work.

And there in a nutshell is an explanation for the reason why to proceed in the manner you do: skywork first.

19 Jul 2008 @ 02:09 by mx @ : Ed, right on... and more to come..
thanks for your enlightening remarks, Ed.

I made a new effort to show the 4 basic wheels of (olodu) energies in the geometry of a Concur tree representing the basic structure of the Universe, And it worked in an amazing way. Am still drawing a picture of it. The model can also show nicely how the twisting of the mid-level works on the level of 16 (midlevel, level of 8: between the 4-directions quadpole and the 16-state olodu level, one could call it the I-Ching level).  

19 Jul 2008 @ 02:23 by Ed Dawson @ : Twisting?
Twisting? Do you mean the polarity swap we saw in that skywork upstairs at Alexandra's? Remember what happened when you set up binary splits in skywork, and the old positive became negative and the old negative moved to positive?

19 Jul 2008 @ 07:32 by Everlight @ : THE Basic Polarity
What a wonderful freedom to be able to duplicate your intention to explore THE
Basic Polarity and to agree with the direction you are taking this back to
THE BASIC AND BEYOND! Dear Max, I know you do not need my agreement, still, you have it.:) I also agree with balancing of negative and postive gain
processing. I personally cleaned up much with R3X following a heart attack several months ago and balanced this a couple of months ago with Rising Scale Processing (PDC 37 & 38 - Philadelphia Doctorate Course). There were many tools and excellent tech in the early lectures that have since been lost to those stuck in KSW. Last week I experienced another awesome experience when I was 'hugged' (oh so much more) by Amma who is also know as "The Hugging Saint" from India. I am not a guru hopper and still, I followed my feelings about her and discovered she is an expression of the 'real' thing. I use all the tools I have explored with my PC/Pre-OTs including Havingness Processes and 6-Directions... and this I also learned years ago from a Native American Medicine Man.:) Processing the PC in front of me is my method and if that includes another process you may suggest here, I welcome this as well.

19 Jul 2008 @ 15:53 by fill-void @ : Duplicated:
Max and Ed, your statement and first comment are finally a description of "me" from which I can and have and will "learn" and to which's "non-directional direction" I can and will contribute without reservations. Just great! :)))  

19 Jul 2008 @ 16:52 by mx @ : hugging saints
"hugging saints" have a morphogenetic field composition that neutralizes some polarizations in fields they merge with temporarily and relinks the contact of a person with their 'higher self', effectively doing something similar to what one calls traditionally an eb'ori (an offering to the higher self/ori).

In Brazil those people are called "benzedeiras' and typically women of low or no income who by principle don't accept money nor any other type of exchange. They are extremely efficient in their actions, performing literally "miracles". Heloisa and I observed witnessed one of those just the other day.

In the sense of the proposal of the recent article, this action is an energetic expression of what I see as a method for 'peace making' also on a large scale: it connects the spirit and soul parts of a person but in the case of benzedeiras without a rational comprehension of the process (which for those applications may not be necessary).  

19 Jul 2008 @ 18:00 by vaxen : Nice...
Very 'electrical.' Rather like 'Tip' 'Ring' hacking in telephony where the Tip connector is the plus pole and the 'Ring' the minus pole of the telco box outside your home, office, plantation...

The terms Spirit (Wind) and Soul (Bottom of foot?) are totally confusing not to mention the fact that different languages reserve unto themselves differing definitions of each! I prefer a more bio-electrical rendering of the terms or at least, very least, the ancient Chinese, or maybe Baharatis, definitions of Shen, Chi, Jen (Triunity) of which there are beyondospheres where a different semantic and phenomenology must needs guage one's knowledge (Chochma) and understanding (Bina/ability to make destinctions between a, b, c... judgements? Hu Mavdil Bein Chosech U Vein Leyla [Dugma]).

The observer and the observed are one. So it would seem that beyond polarity there is a vast unity whose requirements are not based upon Philosophies full of redundant 'terms.' Binary math can be applied to the so called dichotomy which is, lets face it, largely one of 'societal definitions' based on faulty languages and concepts which are both bio-electro-magneto chemical in construct and origin.

Gosh this is becoming an interesting quest... I like Ed's expansion... In-Spire=Breath in. Albeit slowly and through the tummy (Dan Dien (Tan Tien) with your feet at a comfortible distance from one another, knees slightly bent, arms relaxed and at you side or in the RIn Mudra, as an example, or any other Mudra that is comfortible for you and your ideation.

Thanks mx, thanks Ed... thanks everyone! WHOAT!!! ;)

Para VAX

Would love to go into this futher now but I'm mursing a dying 'modem' along with bio-electromagnetic adjustments to the binding spaces. Nice mention of the Gunas by the way. Tri Guna Rahitam! Satwa, Raja, Tama (as in Tamo Guna) ;)... Later Folk. Thanks again for some inspiring 'stuff.'

Panta Rheii!  

20 Jul 2008 @ 03:54 by Mark @ : Re: WHOATTING
Hi Vaxen,
and everyone else interested:
If you want to have something in the WHOAT - then please copy the part you want to have in, put a title to it, the name of the article, author, date and Website/Forum and send it to me (

I will put it in the WHOAT within 1 to 3 days. (If - as far as I can see - it makes sense and is not yet in...:-) )

The reason is:
I am not too much into the Olodu-Stuff, therefore not qualified to do the extraction. And 2ndly, I am not reading everything.

Hope you understand.

Should anyone volunteer to keep the WHOAT up in re to Polar Dynamics, I can make a special arrangement with this person, so he can do it directly. In this case Max and Ed would have to agree to the person who volunteers.
This would be a good thing - as the WHOAT is very incomplete in re to POlar Dynamics and Archetypes.


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23 Sep 2016 @ 17:04: Project Summary 6. Game Theory - why and how do we manifest?
23 Sep 2016 @ 17:02: Project Summary 5: Polar Dynamics - theory and praxis of polarities
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18 Sep 2016 @ 00:32: Project Summary 1: The ConCur Paradigm - the structure of Reality
9 Aug 2016 @ 14:35: Robot Psychologist (by Awaz)
9 Aug 2016 @ 14:35: Project Summary 7: Archetypology of the Human Being
1 Aug 2016 @ 00:40: Victory, submission or what else? Sign and symbol of the Rio 2016 Kickoff

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