en https://newciv.org/nl/newslog.php/_v100/ http://www.newciv.org/news/Images/ncnicon2-s.gif https://newciv.org/nl/newslog.php/_v100/ 88 31 OrgSpace NewsLog 1.87 Sat, 11 Oct 2008 12:46:30 UT Sat, 11 Oct 2008 12:46:30 UT http://blogs.law.harvard.edu/tech/rss 180 https://newciv.org/nl/newslog.php/__show_article/_a000100-000021/#com95726 2008-10-11 12:46: comment by <a href="https://newciv.org/nl/newslog.php/_v308">vaxen</a> on " often find myself wanting to come back":<br/>o you mean to , en? , for one, wish you would...<br/>ar is eace, reedom is lavery, and gnorance is trength. <br/><br/>hose who are not with us are against us.<br/><br/>ere's a thought:<br/>"atan" as the root of all evil ...<br/>... oh, really?<br/><br/>ou sure?<br/><br/>ave you ever questioned that?<br/><br/>o?<br/><br/>ow, who inspired you to stop thinking?<br/><br/>here ... <br/>... didn't your sentience flicker, for even just an instant?<br/>ren't you inclined to deny it, even though it did?<br/><br/>idn't you duck away?<br/>o deny your sentience?<br/><br/>atan wants to be glorified.<br/><br/>e's the ord of ight.<br/><br/>ou duck away, into the shadows.<br/>o: who are you serving?<br/><br/>2+2 != 17<br/><br/>http://hfx-ben.livejournal.com/874610.html https://newciv.org/nl/newslog.php/__show_article/_a000100-000021/#com95726 Sat, 11 Oct 2008 12:46:30 UT https://newciv.org/nl/newslog.php/__show_article/_a000100-000022/#com95049 2008-09-07 10:42: comment by <a href="https://newciv.org/nl/newslog.php/_v63">jazzolog</a> on "o clue what's going on here":<br/>5010 accesses by 592 unique visitors in the past month. robably 4300 of those accesses were me. https://newciv.org/nl/newslog.php/__show_article/_a000100-000022/#com95049 Sun, 7 Sep 2008 10:42:25 UT https://newciv.org/nl/newslog.php/__show_article/_a000100-000022/#com95004 2008-09-01 22:22: comment by <a href="https://newciv.org/nl/newslog.php/_v13">bushman</a> on "o clue what's going on here":<br/>f you have gotten an artical linked to the splash/entry page, and someone clicks in from there or google, it will count as someone accessing your page. :} https://newciv.org/nl/newslog.php/__show_article/_a000100-000022/#com95004 Mon, 1 Sep 2008 22:22:20 UT https://newciv.org/nl/newslog.php/__show_article/_a000100-000019/#com70235 2006-05-28 14:29: comment by swan on ""hy do we continue to hurt one another?"":<br/>many good newslog enteries seem to go unnoticed, and many good people also seem to go unnoticed. have often watched my newslog drop aimlessly to the bottom only to pop back up when have something else to say. egin today by noticing just one of them and let them know in some way. https://newciv.org/nl/newslog.php/__show_article/_a000100-000019/#com70235 Sun, 28 May 2006 14:29:34 UT https://newciv.org/nl/newslog.php/__show_article/_a000100-000019/#com70233 2006-05-28 12:59: comment by jmarc on ""hy do we continue to hurt one another?"":<br/>are you just talking to yourself so you don't have to hear the background noise you generated? https://newciv.org/nl/newslog.php/__show_article/_a000100-000019/#com70233 Sun, 28 May 2006 12:59:25 UT https://newciv.org/nl/newslog.php/__show_article/_a000100-000019/#com70232 2006-05-28 08:44: comment by <a href="https://newciv.org/nl/newslog.php/_v63">jazzolog</a> on ""hy do we continue to hurt one another?"":<br/>ou know, sometimes a number of members check in each day only to watch their ogs sink lazily toward the bottom of the list...no comments to view, no "involvement" evident. ver at the hats the same 3 or 4 people carry on their fun, hardly extending their hospitality to expand the horizons of passersby looking in for the first time to say ello. ventually one's own involvement can be met only by the echoing of oneself through these winding corridors. ome members give up on with a ...and we all know it, while others just stop coming by. he loss of any and all is tragic. https://newciv.org/nl/newslog.php/__show_article/_a000100-000019/#com70232 Sun, 28 May 2006 08:44:48 UT https://newciv.org/nl/newslog.php/__show_article/_a000100-000019/#com70224 2006-05-28 02:37: comment by <a href="https://newciv.org/nl/newslog.php/_v100">cho</a> on ""hy do we continue to hurt one another?"":<br/>n 112004 you wrote that you just noticed my deletions? ut had done that over a year earlier, much more than a year earlier. o, really, what actual "involvement" was there if my absence wasn't noticed for nearly 18 months? https://newciv.org/nl/newslog.php/__show_article/_a000100-000019/#com70224 Sun, 28 May 2006 02:37:39 UT https://newciv.org/nl/newslog.php/__show_article/_a000100-000019/#com38336 2004-07-11 16:44: comment by <a href="https://newciv.org/nl/newslog.php/_v63">jazzolog</a> on ""hy do we continue to hurt one another?"":<br/>en's og was one of the best, and he was a terrific and active member. didn't know he had dismantled his creation until looked it up just now. e was living in alifax, which was difficult for him. notice he does check in to occasionally, and 'd love to see him revive his involvement with us.<br/><br/> he comments still are here in case you want a taste of what went on. https://newciv.org/nl/newslog.php/__show_article/_a000100-000019/#com38336 Sun, 11 Jul 2004 16:44:23 UT https://newciv.org/nl/newslog.php/__show_article/_a000100-000018/#com9531 2002-12-29 11:41: comment by <a href="https://newciv.org/nl/newslog.php/_v308">vaxen</a> on "?''yetzer harah''?":<br/>he word 'etser' (etzer)(v.t., 'atzer) is actually only the third stage of creating, or manifesting, a thing. he first stage is 'tsiluth,' which is the stage of 'idea.' he second stage, where the orah starts, is 'riah,' which means to assemble all the parts of the idea. he parts necessary for its realisation. he third aspect, 'etsira' (etzira), is when you begin the assembly of all the items you gathered in 'riah.' he fourth stage is 'ssiah,' the completed product. ach one of these words, unfortunately, is translated by either the word create, or make, or shape, or aspects of those...but mostly translators all translate these words with the english word create which is itself based on the sanskrit 'ri.' he basis of ri-ya which means movement. etser a (esh yin) eans the formation of . (esh yin) is mostly translated as 'evil.' do'nt agree with that translation for it leads to great misunderstanding. evertheless it may suffice to say that etser, in this context, refers to the active 'assembly' of that which will lead unto...(allowing for the mis-translation of esh yin, , as evil) evil...and not to the 'evil,' as product, itself. hus he abbi says yetser is impulse to...there is also a etser a ov. a means 'the.' ov means 'good.' e could go deeper but, hopefully, this little explanation will suffice for now... <br/><br/>==++--++--++== h my, thank you sooooo much for this, and not only for the specific material itself; 've heard a couple of times that those learned in udaism have a particular ease with bhidharma, and can see why! o incisive, so trenchant, so salient ... so insightful into the human process ... thank you thank you thank you!<br/><br/>y way of detail, what 've been wrestling with the last couple of weeks is the notion of "concurrency"; things can get quite tangled when we lay them out neatly, sequentially, with a clear set of cause-effect relationships ... very handy, the ability to do this ... and often enough very convenient. f course it breaches the 1st precept in just the way described above, buy oh me oh my how my head hurts when grok the concurrency of these gloriously re-entrant processes! in't life just a glory?!! *gush and giggle*<br/><br/>o ... yetser ha.ra and yetser ha.tov ... ok ... so then, the bifurcation arises just there. n the super-richness of that moment, and given the hyper-sensitivity and responsiveness of the gestalt, who flips the coin? pring's warmth informs the seed, and the pebble converses with the ripplet ... but what strokes us to do other than the good?<br/><br/>otta luv this "free will" stuff ... endlessly revealing, like a movie with no denoument, or one where we re-write every time we reach the ending, having perjured our memory of what happened last time. *wink* . . ben ==++--++--++== https://newciv.org/nl/newslog.php/__show_article/_a000100-000018/#com9531 Sun, 29 Dec 2002 11:41:52 UT https://newciv.org/nl/newslog.php/__show_article/_a000100-000017/#com9518 2002-12-28 23:03: comment by strydg on "elf and thers":<br/>all cognitive constructs both serve and harm. we pay attention for these constructs. consciousness is free disengaged from constructs. technology is construct. constructs cause frozen mental mode(l)s. yoga is the cessation of the mode(ification) of the mind, according to some translations of atanjali. no pills. pills are constructs that cause frozen mental modes. pills may reduce pain temporarily but they have toxic side-effects or are habit forming, i.e. cause modification. emantics is a modification of the ancient grammar. grammar is not just commas and periods. etymology and exegesis. technology is the stuff of general consumption. this is like handing out guns to people who don't know how to use them, which is literally and figuratively what we do.<br/><br/>==++--++--++== "all cognitive constructs both serve and harm" ... what struck me when read this was how it's open to multiple readings. ight not take it as evidence of a malevolent cosmos, where even my best presses me to doom? ut to take a different tack entirely; unanticipated consequences aside, constructs that harm should be nulled out ... if they aren't, this can be taken to show that the system has lost its cybernetic quality, i.e. it is no longer self-regulating. onsidering the unanticipated, action need not be perfect in order to be effective; waiting for the perfect moment or for enlightenment to engage in well-intentioned action is, in effect, nothing but excuse for not acting. "nlightened action leaves no wake" is hardly a pragmatic moto for a house-holder (especially one with children!) he pessimist or the unfortunately naive might not be able stand the humbling entailments of imperfection but, except for these, we can see that acting authentically means opening to feedback (consequences, ramifications ... the stuff of response-ability) that is always rich though not always congratulatory.<br/><br/>hen my leg is broken, use a crutch. hen need to cross a stream, get a boat or build a raft. nce my leg is healed, discard the crutch; having crossed the stream ... <br/><br/>ben ==++--++--++==<br/><br/>our perception of the cosmos, because of our constructs, may be that it is malevolent. acting through constructs has effects, some intended and perceived as good, some unintended and perceived as bad if perceived at all. what goes around comes around. trying to make it better only makes it worse. self-regulation in the human organism may result in down-modulation of metabolism, energy, sensitivity, awareness. "cybernetic" is an artificial construct even if it is applied to living organisms. we don't really know all of the human organism's processes of self-regulation. we just like to think we do because the unknown in threatening.<br/><br/>these constructs are of the intellect which is an extension of the survival motive. if we are growing, as many say we are (by "we" refer to the human race) it is through this survival ceiling. at the moment the news media communicate that which causes fear issued by our government because it is aware at some subconscious level that people can be controlled and attention focused in a specific way by fear and the threat to survival. some of us swallow this but it makes us sick. some of us don't swallow it because we won't settle for anything less than that which truly nourishes - forgiveness, acceptance, love.<br/><br/>we may not be tuned-in to the cosmos due to our pre-occupation with our addictive constructs, and so we perceive the cosmos as malevolent. but the cosmos just is. good and bad exist in our heads because of constructs. 'm not saying, either, that we should pull the plug on the whole thing. we must anticipate all effects of our constructs, both good and bad, and navigate accordingly.<br/><br/>note that the word "crutch" can be used to refer to something that somebody uses beyond its necessity. we use drugs like a crutch when we don't really need them (?) but we've become habituated. some consider religion a crutch and a drug.bc https://newciv.org/nl/newslog.php/__show_article/_a000100-000017/#com9518 Sat, 28 Dec 2002 23:03:24 UT https://newciv.org/nl/newslog.php/__show_article/_a000100-000017/#com9517 2002-12-28 22:22: comment by <a href="http://ming.tv/">ming</a> on "elf and thers":<br/>upposedly the roquois were a big inspiration for several of the framers of the .. onstitution.<br/><br/>nyway, suppose what might make a difference is not necessarily something fuzzy and mystical. t might be something precise and it might be a technology. robably an inner technology. ome approach that effectively would teach people to actually pay attention and notice the difference between frozen mental models and dynamic reality. nd the difference between cognitive constructs that serve us, and those that harm us. ome tools for sanity. eneral emantics is a study of that kind of thing, but much too academic for general consumption.<br/><br/>aybe we just need to get people to choose between the red pill and the blue pill. r, rather, we need to hand out red pills on the street corners.<br/><br/>==++--++--++== mmmmm a tasty set of concepts ... inspiration and praxis. ut really, has it not been said clearly? hat is lacking, for this garden ... seeds? hoes and rakes? erhaps what's lacking is the doing of it, merely that.<br/><br/>hat motivates someone to turn away from the crooked deal, and what's lacking when that person doesn't turn away? hat's lacking for a person to open themselves to the moment; what's so overwhelming about the moment that sweeps us along? o long as we retain our individual free-will, we will manifest our falings and faults. ow does this come to be seen as inevitably catastrophic? re we so driven that we dare script a question of life or death for the planet itself? now, /that's/ hubris to the point of insantiy. 'd be satisfied with the stage of home, friends, family, garden, yard, field ... what ambition would call me to determine much more than that?<br/><br/>'ve only had one thing escape me, and that is insight into pessimism. look at how it all seems to come down to that and when look further all see is mistakne beliefs concerning how the world works. (" can duck the consequences of this, because 'm really clever. nd can duck whatever consequences touch me by revelling in the rewards of this deed. nd if there are consequences that cannot duck, can effectively ignore by deadening myself." o powerful, how coyote's unselfconsiousness holds him up after he steps off the cliff for only the short moment it takes for him to realize karma. nd so good, that delusion cannot maintain itself. . . ben ==++--++--++== https://newciv.org/nl/newslog.php/__show_article/_a000100-000017/#com9517 Sat, 28 Dec 2002 22:22:38 UT https://newciv.org/nl/newslog.php/__show_article/_a000100-000017/#com9496 2002-12-27 16:13: comment by <a href="http://ming.tv/">ming</a> on "elf and thers":<br/> guess a problem is when we're separating these various aspects of life into separate, even opposite concepts. rying to arrange things the best possible way, for maximum result, doesn't have to be opposite to doing what is best for everybody. eing entrepreneurial doesn't have to mean being personally greedy and self-serving. do believe that if we all act rationally, the world would work. ut wouldn't define rationally as just being my personal self-interest. ike, in your example, the rational and reasonable thing to do for all who can to help build the dam. aybe we just need a reframe of 'reason'.<br/><br/> sort of believe, or hope deep down, that we'd really all want the same political arrangement, if we got clear on what it means. e all would like to be free to live our life the way we think is best (not just for ourselves) and we'd like things around in society us to be arranged in the way that best serves the most people. t is just that we get stuck in the details.<br/><br/>==++--++--++== <br/><br/>irst off, you're right to draw attention to the downside of those too-neat distinctions ... this crude reductionism has real consequences in boundary conditions (and isn't "outlying data" where the really interesting stuff happens? *grin*) nd your point concerning the disconnect between entrepreneurship and greedy ambition think deserves amplification: it has been my belief that the wholesome engagement that so characterizes authentic entrepreneurship grounds personal experience and so mitigates against the more neurotic appeties. ell, otherwise, there's no up-side to anything /except/ the sovereign excercise of conspicuous power, such as the extravagant consumption of luxury!<br/><br/>nd here's the source of my sadness: the disheartening degree to which people are automatized (yes? rendered robot-like?) ... like the in-duh-vidual in cott dams' newsletter who wonders "if hristmas might fall on riday the 13th some year", or the who heads out to buy extra stamps "before the prices go up". f course these examples are comical, and can be explained away ... but 'm active in a lot of group work (or was, at least), and it's sometimes shocking just how zoned out people get. he sophsit's aim is to win the argument, rather than successfully defending or promoting a productive solution ... those two are worlds apart and entail a different set of tactics and methods.<br/><br/>ut your comment has me pondering something else in the moment ... eilhard de hardin comes to mind [sp?] ... find something near mystical in the fact that there is no solution other than heightened humanity, effective community, real health, authentic sanity, etc etc etc ... every technocratic / militaristic / mechanistic solution carries with it the seeds of enantiodromeia [wow, that was a stretch ... see .. hompson's "arkness and cattered ight". don't see anything in short-cut solutions except illicit comfort for those who care the least. t's very much as though the whole, in its unobstructed and endlessly patient generosity, will painstakingly attend to every barbaric alternative to truly humane development, even if that does call for various apocalyptic catastrophes.<br/><br/>e are moving sooooo quickly ... and that's very very new for us, and for the planet. erhaps what keeps us from learning from our worst failures is lack of sufficient self-esteem, such that we are overwhelmed by shame. erhaps, when we are strong enough, we shall engage in a fair and honest accounting, and draw the appropriate conclusions from that.<br/><br/>ay '03 bring benefit to those of good will ... it's been such a long struggle. . . ben <br/><br/>addendum: your blog took me to homsky's <a href="http://www.ratical.org/co-globalize/022600.html" id="posts_0x1_000100-000017_outside_link" target="_blank">aking ontrol of ur ives: reedom, overeignty, and ther ndangered pecies</a> and the olobalization homepage got me to find this:<br/><br/>" thousand years ago or more we the audenosaunee, the roquois, were given the rules and processes of democracy. he principles of this democracy are: eace in mind and community, quity, which is justice for the people, and the power of the good minds, which embodies good health and reason." hat's from <a href="http://www.ratical.org/co-globalize/renyons.html#goodinds" id="posts_0x2_000100-000017_outside_link" target="_blank">pirituality, atural aw, and the thics of uthority</a><br/><br/>==++--++--++== https://newciv.org/nl/newslog.php/__show_article/_a000100-000017/#com9496 Fri, 27 Dec 2002 16:13:16 UT https://newciv.org/nl/newslog.php/__show_article/_a000100-000017/#com9491 2002-12-27 04:56: comment by <a href="http://ming.tv/">ming</a> on "elf and thers":<br/>reat you did the test too. nd, yeah, there are some problems with the pure self-interest thing. irst of all, there are a great many people who will prefer to better the greater whole, even if they have to go out of their way to do so. nlightened self-interest maybe, but it certainly is a lot more than just serving one's own interests. believe that there is a certain natural order that emerges if most everybody is free to go do what they think most needs doing. ut that is quite a different thing than what emerges if everybody goes and does what puts them most ahead of everybody else.<br/><br/>==++--++--++== heh ... almost gasped when saw the gif on your page; had done it years ago but lost track of it. nd you know what? can't be sure, but think my results are very much like before, though suspect the blah-blah logic [read: post-hoc rationalization] might have changed vernacular somewhat.<br/><br/>es yes yes, do believe we're strumming the same chord here; at the risk of getting esoteric and arcane *if not downright scholastic ... kidding, /kidding/! *, for me it comes down to _prajna_ and _upaya_. f course, having attained the _jnana_ of genuine enlightenment, all dualities dissolve, but on the plane where spend my days, can really see the crackling dynamic (what's the ullerian term, tensegrity?) between _the skillful use of means_ and the _discriminative wisdom_ that's in-spired by an earty loving kindness.<br/><br/>"earning without practice is like a rich man shackled to his wealth; practice without learning, like wandering blind and lost in a desert."<br/><br/>he "tragedy of the commons" scenario doesn't unfold /unless/ people are motivated and resourceful and practical and pragmatic and on and on ... all good things, right? rom what see, we're teetering and tottering between prideful ambition and unprincipled self-indulgence ... and it's that black/white yin/yang that we need to see into. *ooh! ow 'bout "he ao of ffectiveness" ... but suppose it's already been written.<br/><br/>ll in all, think it's a bundle of paradoxes, to be played with / worked at communally and resolved within. ow, how do transform /that/ into right livelihood?!<br/><br/>p.s. 'm having "fear of success" type nightmares; the new techniques (, , web services etc etc) are enabling the sort of processes and methods was trying to develop for use in & back in my hay days ... which means my experience is practicable, i.e. salable, ergo: it may be time for me to go dance with the other dragon again. (ikes! hat's what get for leaving the monastery with thoughts of "householder" in mind! heh heh) <br/><br/> . ben . ==++--++--++== https://newciv.org/nl/newslog.php/__show_article/_a000100-000017/#com9491 Fri, 27 Dec 2002 04:56:12 UT https://newciv.org/nl/newslog.php/__show_article/_a000100-000017/#com9488 2002-12-27 02:41: comment by <a href="https://newciv.org/nl/newslog.php/_v63">jazzolog</a> on "elf and thers":<br/> commend your courage and perspicacity at those message boards. recently found myself in a nest of them at another site---and believe we might be somewhat surrounded here too. y wife puts on her breastplate every day and heads for bout.com to wield her verbal sword against no-one-tells-me-what-to-do-ism. e have the true progeny of the eagan e eneration with whom now to contend. read a letter in our local newspaper just last evening that said, "f we're going to bomb those rabs, let's get on with it. hy all the stalling around?" ight. obody likes a show that drags: cut to the chase, and let's get to the next show! (y comment is parody, folks.) our emphasis on the virtue of brother/sisterhood shines wherever you write, en. love you for it! <br/><br/>==++--++--++== *long sigh* /wish/ it were as virtuous as it can be made to sound, richard! ut what encounter soooo often is the "7 year old fighting off the bully" energy. ow, of course, than can be transformed into the realization that 'm fired by the same ignorant [read: needy, lonely, frightened] self-righteousness as the "bomb 'em til the rubble bounces" hawks, and /that/ can be the meat of feast offering ... 'course this pre-supposes the maintenance of something like mindfulness! ;-)<br/><br/>ut the real nut of it for me is the stark honesty of "f we're gonna bomb 'em, let's get to it" ... it's /precisely/ the absence of sophistic cant that makes the situation so very very rich. "o fine, who's gonna be first to sacrifice their son for the sake of those viperous fat-cats' oil deals, /you/?! r you just horny on playing /someone else's/ son like a video-game hot-shot?"<br/><br/> slight lateral: one of the questions in the libertarian quiz had to do with military draft; how's /that/ for a tangled web?! nd that was one of the questions answered neither yes nor no ... "maybe" is just how feel, with the following logic (which stems in part from my experience as "good to go" trained airborne): if /he/ is willing to suffer the ultimate in the name of armed conflict, why should be so lame about a coupla years in stockade, since 'm so damned hi-falutin' principled? . . ben<br/><br/> ==++--++--++==<br/><br/>hile the guys with the guns, knives, and lubrication always make out no matter who's fighting (and who the f$%^&k cares, as long as the cash rolls in?) 'm thinking increasingly we are on the brink of a religious war, spun out by the reactionary---nay, regressive---ranks of all sides. aybe war religious ultimately and perversely anyway... --- ichard<br/><br/> ==++--++--++==<br/><br/> think your "spun out by the reactionary ranks of all sides" is key: after all, it remains true that "a bayonet is a tool with a worker on both ends". he identity theory 've been trying to cobble together all these years (not terribly original ... basically an extension of the uddhist idea that it's an elaborate effort to maintain the fictional "") has one gapping hole: those who are sensitive to the good (by this mean the idea that can be very well in attending to the wellness of others) have certain channels of communication open that are not there for the truly terror-stricken, i.e. the compulsively grasping power junky. ow do we placate the endlessly ambitious? ("he power elite only wants one thing: everything.") oes it necessarily come to a conflict of power? ("nderstanding that conflict is sometimes inevitable, the sage commander avoids war.")<br/><br/>o frog benefits from bulls fighting in the swamp.<br/><br/> suspect we need to make an end to war.<br/><br/>. ben . ==++--++--++== https://newciv.org/nl/newslog.php/__show_article/_a000100-000017/#com9488 Fri, 27 Dec 2002 02:41:09 UT https://newciv.org/nl/newslog.php/__show_article/_a000100-000016/#com9472 2002-12-26 14:15: comment by sharie on "ctive iscourse":<br/>ow do you know where we'd be without capitalism? <br/><br/>rchaeological evidence suggests that ancient civilizations had developed advanced technologies, however, it's unknown whether they were capitalistic or gift economies.<br/><br/>n this culture, external messages overload our senses, convincing us that we should value external *things* rather than our internal values of truth, peace, love, and happiness.<br/><br/>hat if we weren't bombarded with those messages? e may not have advanced technologies, but we might have peace and happiness instead.<br/><br/>.. s for the *shit* ... just remember it's toxic until after it sits for a couple years... it becomes fertilizer... or food for thought. https://newciv.org/nl/newslog.php/__show_article/_a000100-000016/#com9472 Thu, 26 Dec 2002 14:15:47 UT https://newciv.org/nl/newslog.php/__show_article/_a000100-000016/#com9259 2002-12-19 16:45: comment by sharie on "ctive iscourse":<br/>he dominant culture in the .. holds materialistic values above our atural, nherent alues of ove, ruth, eace, appiness, and ealth. his is *apitalism* ... ecause of this, we have a self-destructing culture.<br/><br/>apitalism and emocracy don't seem to coincide in a healthy way. eople are shortsighted, looking for their immediate gratification, rather than seeking mutually-beneficial, happy, healthy relationships with one another.<br/><br/>dvertising is a multi-billion dollar business... because it works. t pays to advertise. t pays to persuade people to think a certain way, to buy a certain product. ecause of this, *democracy* and *capitalism* aren't working for the people.<br/><br/>hanks for your article.<br/><br/>>>==-- ou're very welcome!<br/><br/>"apitalism and emocracy don't seem to coincide in a healthy way." ... now, just on the face of it ... isn't that crazy?! hat decent upstanding person would tolerate capitalism /without/ a vibrant, vital, energetic democracy? o give the beast its due, it's a fairly good way of gauging some things ... not great, and not in all circumstances, but still ... "profit" is a crude measure of /something/, and that /something/ is definitely inversely related to waste ... soooo, there's /something/ to the "invisible hand of the market" rationale. ut _without grass-roots responsiveness?! iterally mad ... in-sane in the old sense: unhealthy.<br/><br/>ut ya know, can bring it back to "the pursuit of happiness" (this is so very closely linked to my uddhist beliefs, and can bring it up without yanking the conversation out of shape, soooo ...). f folks get a little bit confused, and a little bit pessimistic, and loose a bit of self-esteem, and put a bit too much trust in he ig an ... then, well hell ... get a pizza and sit down in front of the big-screen and let tomorrow bring what tomorrow will bring! <br/><br/>ut, you know, without capitalism we would never have the sort of technological capacity for generating wealth that is needed to build etter orld. o, , it's still a double-edged sword, and we haven't learned to handle it. (ood heavens, that stuff with nron [ was following at the time ... one made $20million in a single little dirty deal!) ... who's that news to? hat was news about it except the /sheer scale/ ... two years ago was writing on "the return of the ge of obber arons" ... my gawd, how they gouged the people of alifornia!!<br/><br/>ocial transactions with all the healing power and nutritive strength of ringles ... isn't that pathetic? nd mean /pathetic/ ... heart breaking ... really very very very sad ... ld estament sad. *sigh* . ben . +--=== https://newciv.org/nl/newslog.php/__show_article/_a000100-000016/#com9259 Thu, 19 Dec 2002 16:45:13 UT https://newciv.org/nl/newslog.php/__show_article/_a000100-000016/#com9250 2002-12-19 11:01: comment by <a href="https://newciv.org/nl/newslog.php/_v68">invictus</a> on "ctive iscourse":<br/> don't have much of a problem with strong statements, but always try to make them respectfully. think do that most of the time : ). hen you're talking about some of the more fundamental issues, it's almost impossible not to make strong statements. t depends on how much you trust the person you're talking to, guess, and how much they trust you. ith trust, strong statements don't hurt too much. ithout it, yeah, you need to be careful, or you may find yourself snipping too many threads. know that there's no sense in alienating people who are on our "side" over petty little differences (or even fairly major ones). like this article... seems pretty reasonable to me. s for truth... that's a big, fat, complicated topic. ore than opinion, but less than absolutely absolute.<br/><br/>>>==--+ "ess than absolutely absolute ..." ... yaa, can dig that. bsolute, sorta, mean ... "true" has that sort of weight, relative to "fact". (rowing up with rench, was very early conscious of how "verit[e accent]"(fr. "truth") meant something special where as "fait" (fr. "fact") meant, well heck ... in the verb form it's the french of "to make" so hey, nothing much special there! ;-)<br/><br/>hat gets me about this "respect" thing is that a politically astute manipulator will play on that and claim all the middle ground, so that even to live by the injunciton/slogain "peak truth to power!" gets one painted as an up-start, rabble-rouser, trouble-maker, shit-disturber, yada yada yada. ey, ocrates was condemned to death, and oshua was nailed to a tree, soo ....<br/><br/>hat 've been most aware of is this: some fairly mundane bits of ideology actually act as cornerstones of conventional world-view and so some folks' identities really rest on them ... sad as it may be, what sometimes seems like the over-reaction of a person committed to a cowardly path is very often just exactly that. o it's too easy to be unintentionally cruel in such a situation. /iscourse demands an authentic interest in the other's life situation as a whole./ hen remember bbie offman [sp?] always recall how he pointed this out: confrontation gives rise to a lot of fear, and fear turns people in on themselves ... and that has consequences. . ben . +---=== https://newciv.org/nl/newslog.php/__show_article/_a000100-000016/#com9250 Thu, 19 Dec 2002 11:01:49 UT https://newciv.org/nl/newslog.php/__show_article/_a000100-000015/#com9210 2002-12-17 16:57: comment by sharie on "n the anniversary of ontreal assacre, 'm called and cannot answer ...":<br/>hen all else fails... <br/><br/>ove.<br/><br/>nd live in peace.<br/><br/>ow are things in ova cotia?<br/><br/>--++--++-- n this sharp chill even the north tlantic air is clear, so the night sky is ablaze with stars. xcept for a face to smile into, could want for more? --++--++-- https://newciv.org/nl/newslog.php/__show_article/_a000100-000015/#com9210 Tue, 17 Dec 2002 16:57:59 UT https://newciv.org/nl/newslog.php/__show_article/_a000100-000015/#com9152 2002-12-14 15:06: comment by <a href="https://newciv.org/nl/newslog.php/_v100">cho</a> on "n the anniversary of ontreal assacre, 'm called and cannot answer ...":<br/>ne of the reasons the "r. ." type succeeds so well ('m referring to _quasi_psychopaths, yes?) is that there intentions are whole-hearted *now, ain't that ironic?!* ... they're willing to pay big bucks for igma ix quality ... if/when they speak with "forked tongue" you can bet they're very much at one with themselves.<br/><br/>"e", on the otherhand (if can pretend to a solidarity that doesn't look like it will surive its 30th year) are big on statements of strategy, such as "hange the whole system, and create a new civilization. " but (please forgive me) rather lame on implementation, i.e. tactic.<br/><br/>n the quarter century that 've been trying to weave buddhist epistemology into the fabric of my daily life, 've met people who actualize the boddhisatva understanding that best benefit comes from aleviating the other's suffering ... yaaa, like maybe 6 or 7. he others? nlike r. , they are divided against themselves, professing the very best and practicing a very sharp cost/benefit analysis ... giving just enough to maintain deniability, saying the right thing to maintain their group identity, but ensuring that their lives are marked by all the conventional comforts.<br/><br/>"hen what is said is not what is meant, what is done need not be done, and what need be done is left not done." onfucius<br/><br/>p.s. 15 years ago, reading a text on cognitive ergonomics, imagined integrated infomation systems comprised of task-based ontologies and process-oriented taxonomies. hile was busy going broke "creating a new civilization" the industry was beetling away creating an extraordinary understanding of how can be applied. y nightmare scenario seems to be coming true: there will be those who are prisoners in the concentration camp, those who live comfortably administering the concentration camp, and a fevered few outside the camp walls. 'm thinking of cutting my dreads, trolling for funds so can get a working , and going to work for or or ... heck, was making $1,500/month three decades ago, and being dissident has made me a party of one ... time to give my head a shake and get real!<br/><br/>ddendum: f the "rich young man" of the ew estament had approached a guru (in the modern sense), he would have been sold a book and given an invitation to the ashram. oshua, the carpenter's son, replied simply and frankly, "ive up all you have and follow me." eedless to say, dewd turned and walked away. /ome/ things never change! https://newciv.org/nl/newslog.php/__show_article/_a000100-000015/#com9152 Sat, 14 Dec 2002 15:06:25 UT https://newciv.org/nl/newslog.php/__show_article/_a000100-000015/#com9149 2002-12-14 13:00: comment by sharie on "n the anniversary of ontreal assacre, 'm called and cannot answer ...":<br/>e may be an exception to the rule. aybe all the bad psychiatrists are in the midwest and every place else they're good, decent people. doubt the dozens of stories listened to, day in and day out (something psych staff doesn't do because they're too busy *charting* - ah, that may be the difference... ou're talking about a time before insurance companies required all the *charting*. t's a whole different world in psych wards than it was 10, 20, or 30 years ago.)<br/><br/>f you're a danger to your self or others, you can be locked up in a mental hospital. nce your insurance runs out (usually after 3-4 weeks), you're out on the street. f you commit violence, yep, you're locked up in jail or prison.<br/><br/>'ve heard the highest correlating factor with homelessness is "domestic violence". he correlation between homeless and mental exhaustion is self-evident. o we take it back to "violence" in the home. his doesn't necessarily mean "physical violence", often the mental and "emotional violence" is even more damaging. ipping someone to shreds with insults over and over.<br/><br/>o many people are turning to drugs and alcohol. hy? o escape? rom what? he horrors of their personal life?<br/><br/>t's sad.<br/><br/>ut there's got to be a solution.<br/><br/>hange the whole system, and create a new civilization.<br/><br/>hat's why we're here. https://newciv.org/nl/newslog.php/__show_article/_a000100-000015/#com9149 Sat, 14 Dec 2002 13:00:12 UT