en https://newciv.org/nl/newslog.php/_v383/ An NCN News Log http://www.newciv.org/pic/ncnicon2-s.gif https://newciv.org/nl/newslog.php/_v383/ 88 31 webmaster@newciv.org OrgSpace NewsLog 1.87 Sat, 18 Oct 2008 00:53:20 UT Sat, 18 Oct 2008 00:53:20 UT http://blogs.law.harvard.edu/tech/rss 180 https://newciv.org/nl/newslog.php/__show_article/_a000383-000001/#com96056 2008-10-18 00:53: comment by martha on "ow is the time for all good men to come to the aid of their country.":<br/>een away from for a few years now. n fact have moved across the country and trying to start a new life in . ind this discussion by i2i, dkill and anae (francis) quite interesting. <br/> have actually been thinking (or trying too) since my return to how to revive this place yet do away with the abuse. still believe the internet is the great equalizer dispite some countries like hina trying to control the information the chinese can read. <br/><br/> deeper issue is how to allow many viewpoints without abuse. lso is hating a group of people what we want for a new civ? sn't a new civ energy really about trying to work together to create a better world or am just a dreamer?<br/> think need to sleep on all have read. y eyes hurt...<br/>reat to see you here i2i. miss some of the above members mentioned. t one time there was a wonderful energy here. left because of the abuse and intolerance and hate. truly believe that ncn should be a place for everyone yet how does one deal with people that continually reject the guidelines that ming wrote? heers for now and thanks for bringing this log to my attention. https://newciv.org/nl/newslog.php/__show_article/_a000383-000001/#com96056 Sat, 18 Oct 2008 00:53:20 UT https://newciv.org/nl/newslog.php/__show_article/_a000383-000001/#com94278 2008-07-16 18:28: comment by <a href="https://newciv.org/nl/newslog.php/_v119">i2i</a> on "ow is the time for all good men to come to the aid of their country.":<br/> <br/><a href="http://www.newciv.org/pic/nl/artpic/232/000232-000660.jpg" id="posts_0x1_000383-000001_outside_link" target="_blank">ibertarian ingo</a><br/> <br/><br/><br/>"tates should not school us<br/>let corporations run our schools<br/>let the free market make the rules,"<br/><br/>......as sung by the <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3eg01" id="posts_0x2_000383-000001_outside_link" target="_blank">ilton riedman choir</a>. (at tip to ark erry at <a href="http://mjperry.blogspot.com/2007/11/milton-friedman-revolutionary.html" id="posts_0x3_000383-000001_outside_link" target="_blank">arpe iem</a>.)<br/> https://newciv.org/nl/newslog.php/__show_article/_a000383-000001/#com94278 Wed, 16 Jul 2008 18:28:37 UT https://newciv.org/nl/newslog.php/__show_article/_a000383-000001/#com89551 2007-12-19 20:32: comment by anae on "ow is the time for all good men to come to the aid of their country.":<br/>... some 7 months letter...<br/><br/>...setting a twisted thing straight (in the pirit of the eason):<br/><br/> can only regret, here, that a sore spot possibly was hit with one on this thread who mistakenly took very, very personally, part of a comment that was not directed at her - would have come and tried to repair that misunderstanding sooner had known about it before today. ne who asked:<br/><br/>"hat in the world this ibran's hildren ssay; what was all about... sure as hell don't see any connection to thing and certainly not to anything said -exept that it is part of her reprimand to me!!!"<br/>---4 ov 2006 @ 01:47 by blueboy, "hy do you gals continue to twist my words???? "<br/><br/>iven that do not know blueboy/strid personally , nor anything having to do with her life, there was no "reprimand" here - and certainly nothing directed personally at her or at her life. ( reprimand for what and to whom?) s a matter of fact, the ahlil ibran poem was not addressed to her, but was a direct response to her friend dkill's comment:<br/><br/>"hen used the word "education" it was used in the term that government uses it, yes for indoctrinating propaganda, hence the quotation marks. believe that the people that should our children should be , their natural mother and father. hy should we let anyone else tell our children whats goods for them, they clearly don't have their best interests at heart. e need to protect our children from "education" this really is a cancer. <br/>---30 ct 2006 @ 12:47 by dkill <br/> <br/>o disrespect to blueboy or to anyone else here was intended in my response, which was a follow-up to dkill's above comment with regard to children and education. thought, at the time, that that much was clear, and apologize if it was not.<br/><br/>he relevance of the comment is plain - 'll repeat it again:<br/><br/>quote:<br/><br/>s for our children, well, the question of education that was brought up somewhere in a comment above, is a good one. ve no problem with people who want to educate their children themselves, and considering what some of the alternatives happen to be, depending on ones environment, dont blame them. also know that there are great institutions of learning out there that can teach children what their parents could never teach them themselves and which can also open them to a greater diversity---a diversity which children will oftentimes seek themselves as they grow up, which is probably a good thing. he famous poem by ahlil ibran comes to mind:<br/><br/>our children are not your children.<br/>hey are the sons and daughters of ife's longing for itself.<br/>hey come through you but not from you,<br/>nd though they are with you, yet they belong not to you.<br/>ou may give them your love but not your thoughts.<br/>or they have their own thoughts.<br/>ou may house their bodies but not their souls,<br/>or their souls dwell in the house of tomorrow, which you cannot visit, not even in your dreams.<br/>ou may strive to be like them, but seek not to make them like you.<br/><br/>ho knows what children will be like, they could become anything! ne of that commenter's own might even grow-up one day to become, what a dreadful thought,...a politician.<br/><br/>- endquote -<br/><br/>ncidentally do not know who oberto effords (the owner of this blog) is either. do not entirely agree with everything he says or proposes on this post, but as he said it himself his "is just an idea...," you know. nd all he ever suggested was that it be discussed if it had merit, or else that [other ideas] be picked and explored. t is regrettable that despite some of the responses on this thread (it is now some 46 or 47 comments long) oberto effords never came back to take part to the discussion. ne can't help but wonder what became of oberto. r for that matter, what became of some of the other participants on this thread. artha? wan? starrs? stvan?<br/><br/>ay the love and peace of the eason be with you. https://newciv.org/nl/newslog.php/__show_article/_a000383-000001/#com89551 Wed, 19 Dec 2007 20:32:34 UT https://newciv.org/nl/newslog.php/__show_article/_a000383-000001/#com82797 2007-05-22 08:18: comment by <a href="mailto:musedisorder@yahoo.com">use.isorder</a> on "ow is the time for all good men to come to the aid of their country.":<br/>my webpage: http://members.vpchat.com/musedisorder./denost.htm <br/><br/>should explain how i feel about this statement(s),, and how true it is,, i loved what you wrote here,, and i simpley just cannot argue with that simple fact,,, yes,, everything now and all the things being paved over,, changing of technologies is even changing how people even treat one another,, very poorly in other words, nited we stand, ivided we fall. y rothers and isters of the .. it is time for all good men to come to the aid of their parties and country https://newciv.org/nl/newslog.php/__show_article/_a000383-000001/#com82797 Tue, 22 May 2007 08:18:40 UT https://newciv.org/nl/newslog.php/__show_article/_a000383-000001/#com75876 2006-11-04 15:04: comment by skillz on "ow is the time for all good men to come to the aid of their country.":<br/>his spiritualy awakening site has turned into a political circus! hats not new civirlisation, thats old tricks that dont work. have to have a disclainer for legal reasons to accept others views, but in reallity no one can be expected to agree and accept what is bollox. his site is giving people an opotunity for progression not stagnation. m not saying that views are the right views, am merly voicing . did not create these facts, they have exsisted before you or was born. hrowing around beliefs and opinions (which aint even their own) aint gonna go far. ts this politicaly correct mannor of respecting other peoples deluded bullshit fantasys that is bringing humanity to a hault. <br/><br/> ! . <br/>uote by - !!<br/><br/> - omplete and utter bollox! f you have to believe it then its a lie. ou either know something as fact or its bollox.<br/> - n insecrue view of circumstances<br/> - agreement of many for fear of persicution, again bollox!<br/><br/> find that when poked and proddid, people will return to their institutions for santuary and will stay there in fear of opening up to ! <br/><br/>he problem is most people are afaid of . hen your spiritualy weak real is scary. dont think that me and strid will ever be able to drum the truth into any "institutionalized" person because they have the most powerful weapon of all that brakes through all truth - . ut you can only ignore the fire till it burns. hen its life that is of direct suffering because of others ignorance (like the iraqi people for example) you may just wake up, or stay in deniel and die waiting for the democrats to save you. https://newciv.org/nl/newslog.php/__show_article/_a000383-000001/#com75876 Sat, 4 Nov 2006 15:04:03 UT https://newciv.org/nl/newslog.php/__show_article/_a000383-000001/#com75865 2006-11-04 01:47: comment by <a href="https://newciv.org/nl/newslog.php/_v288">jobrown</a> on "ow is the time for all good men to come to the aid of their country.":<br/>to twist my words???? <br/><br/>" is not left-wing or right-wing. t is about making the world work in a wholistic manner. his probably includes both individual freedom of choice and social responsibility. owever, as a whole has no agenda of political issues. ny member is free to be of any observation that they choose.<br/><br/> members aren't required to agree to anything, other than to work constructively on creating a world that works for all of us, and to be tolerant of other people's views. owever, certain values tend to emerge amongst us. ne expression of shared values, that many members seem to like, is found in the text "e are the ew ivilization". ut, again, you don't have to agree with every one of those points either." <br/><br/>ahhh!.... ^!^ <br/><br/><br/>harassing me? wasn't the one who objected in any way, to anything, but only saying believe in elf-governing and for that am now being harassed to no end by you two. <br/> also was the one who pointed out that ife/"od" is the one giving us all our ental (= spiritual) ) skills and . was the one who found it in her "ood eart" necessary to try to reprimand me for such an ourageous belief and then using a ridiculing attitude goes on distorting my words, which de facto are there for all to read -as if all people must be dum and blind to the message in my words! ot only are you trying to put me down for my viewpoint (what about the freedom of expressing oneself here???...and you i.. are not really the gal to defend any trespassings.... remember your own rollsxing pennalizing "go-sit-in- the-corner-pl/attitudes -and more, that you tried to pull on all of members! cut you some slack then, but not anylonger. oday -in my opinion as well- you are "over the edge" with your controll-omania! ) nd now you .. are jumping in pretending . was the one who said what was saying, giving me shit while pretending that she was the one saying what was saying! , isn't it?!?!!! .... eeez, gals! nn oulter's hithatroom would be a place with much more people who are like minded with you than ncn ever, though there are a few more here, besides you, who would fit much better at ..'s place!<br/><br/>nce again: " is not left-wing or right-wing. t is about making the world work in a wholistic manner. his probably includes both individual freedom of choice and social responsibility. owever, as a whole has no agenda of political issues. ny member is free to be of any observation that they choose.<br/><br/> members aren't required to agree to anything, other than to work constructively on creating a world that works for all of us, and to be tolerant of other people's views. owever, certain values tend to emerge amongst us. ne expression of shared values, that many members seem to like, is found in the text "e are the ew ivilization". ut, again, you don't have to agree with every one of those points either." <br/>!!! <br/><br/><br/>hen and where did imply that thought my statement to be absolutely unique, never before expressed ???? hy even imply that did such a thing? on't you think that most of the active members already know what believe in/see ife as? f course they do! hey don't read it the way you two did. ranted there a handful , who happily join you in (member) bashing people with views inconvenient to the "secert" agenda of the ; ush's little ission to bring forth and indeed finalize.<br/>'m according to 's insinuation an autoctrat and a bad person for not giving (her beloved) overnment credit of hardly anything. hat part she did get right!<br/>ut what in the world this ibran's hildren ssay; what was all about... sure as hell don't see any connection to thing and certainly not to anything said -exept that it is part of her reprimand to me!!! ????? .., with your rollxings and "hings" if a person dare to expand on an idea thread relating to something you posted on your blog, at all!... is mission here to yet evermore twist my comment? eems to me you and . right now in this space are the biggest, nastiest trolls xing any path of intelligent discussion in this thread. are you trying to accomplish?<br/><br/>ut to satify .'s devotion of overnment and its tender care of all civilians, big and small alike, will post an article as a comment, considering the title of the article we are brainstorming around. his nfo should be in perfect harmony with .'s thinking, taking into account what her attack-comment/s have reveiled in her attack of my comment/strid<br/><br/>eaaah: ower o he eople! "ow is the time for all good men to come to the aid of their country." <br/>() why don't you gals stick to nn oulter's website? hat would fit your true ideology much better ... and leave us who truly want something and for without your toxic hidden agendas to poison and slow down our work here! t after all a etwork, looking to create something !!!... not to keep status quo -to satify the same ol'd crowd of "oidy oidys". <br/> <br/>atanic orshipping, hild<br/>acrificing n utler ounty, <br/>oman comes forward with horror stories of<br/>government cover-up of hundreds of bodies.<br/>y reg zymanski<br/>rctic eacon.com<br/>11-4-6<br/><br/>rom the time ebbie itts was a child, she was beaten, tortured, abused and even put in a straight jacket.<br/> <br/>ccording to itts, she was thrust against her will into a dark and deeply sinister atanic cult, a cult protected by state of issouri and federal authorities.<br/> <br/>nd if wasn't for the grace of od, itts, 51, says she wouldn't be here today to tell her incredible story, a sick and devious story illustrating how the forces of evil really work.<br/> <br/>"s a small child, saw a woman's body cut in half and babies cut out of the womb," said itts, recalling the satanic ceremonies she witnessed as a child growing up in utler ounty issouri.<br/> <br/>"o one would help us and the authorities because the authorities were involved. learned quickly that nobody would help us even after my grandfather tried for many years.<br/> <br/>"hen in 1984, the federal authorities came in and removed the bodies from a mass gravesite in the woods behind the house lived in. ince then everything has been closed up tighter than a drum and no one had been able to get any justice."<br/> <br/>itts told her story of atanic insanity hursday on reg zymanski's radio show, he nvestigative ournal, a show where the truth often is hard to swallow but nevertheless told from the voices of many mericans silenced by the media's aversion to distortions and outright lies.<br/> <br/>itts claimed after being thrust into a atanic cult as a displaced child with no mother and father, she witnessed children being used as human blood devil sacrifices, the murders of hundreds of unwanted children and women being covered up by state and federal authorities.<br/> <br/>"s look back and look at merica now, all can say is told you so," said itts, claiming the horrors of her childhood still cause nightmares. " wanted to come forward on your show because there is nobody else listening. wanted people to know how these people operate and how they operate today."<br/> <br/>itts claims justice has never been served and never will be served for the child subjugated to atan until the forces of evil are rooted out of the major religious and governmental institutions of merica.<br/> <br/>" was beaten, tortured and put in a straight jacket," said itts, recalling her childhood. " witnessed children being sacrificed and killed, but even to this day there has been no justice and it's hard to find anybody who has the courage to find out the truth. know some people will think am crazy, but this is the truth and this is what really happened."<br/> <br/>nd this is not the first time guests have come on he nvestigative ournal with stories of atanic worshipping and devil murders.<br/> <br/>lthough the host has been criticized for giving a forum to people who have claimed to witness blood sacrifices in both the bowels of he atican and the ormon emple in tah, he shrugs off the criticism saying "it's about time we trust and listen to average mericans before it's too late."<br/> <br/>esides her radio interview, itts had this to say:<br/> <br/>"y story can't be kept down anymore by the that threatens to put me away for the rest of my life. an ather has pictures of 300 bodies in this county in 1972 and the eds got the evidence in 84 and the world will never see the piles of bodies that were collected, the evidence has been covered up and the governor refuses to arrest those because it would go public.<br/> <br/>" ain't healthy, but need to get my story told even if die someday people will find out told the truth. he first sheriff remember was about 1959 or 60 name assingham. e put a gun to grandpa and told him to keep his mouth shut, want to start with that story, was 4 years old. want to describe the missing people the atanic cult killed and the year of death. want to name some names of people that were involved who should!<br/> <br/>" was arrested two decades ago, but the governor of issouri refuses like said they don't intend for this to ever get over with or ever admit that it ever happened. am disabled for brain surgery the cops refused to protect me who ar eunder control.<br/> <br/>"hey tried to get me killed and shut me up. am a victim and witness and thugs wearing badges are not doing their job, the the sheriff, the police all are not under control who will not let them have any of the evidence there keeping them from arresting those involved. lease help get my story out even if they pull some crap on me and threaten me again get my story out anyway."<br/>his article is from http://www.rense.com/general74/satn.htm and the rest can be found at: www.arcticbeacon.com https://newciv.org/nl/newslog.php/__show_article/_a000383-000001/#com75865 Sat, 4 Nov 2006 01:47:22 UT https://newciv.org/nl/newslog.php/__show_article/_a000383-000001/#com75848 2006-11-03 17:54: comment by <a href="https://newciv.org/nl/newslog.php/_v119">i2i</a> on "ow is the time for all good men to come to the aid of their country.":<br/>" got all my ental = "spiritual" ( a more modern word would be 'creative' ) skills by ife..."<br/>[3 ov 2006 @ 06:20 by blueboy]<br/><br/>s we do all, blueboy. don't think anae was saying anything different.<br/><br/>nce again, reat post oberto - a promissing premise - you certainly know how to get a good thread going, lol.<br/><br/> hope more people will comment on your entry and will feel they can do so on and contribute to your post without having their head bitten off for doing so.<br/><br/>his is an open space. <br/><br/>he members of are quite a diverse group of people with quite different views and beliefs and backgrounds. here is no requirement that we all agree on the specifics. <br/><br/> is open to people of any belief system, as long as it includes the right for people to have different preferences. encourages people to act based on their inner inspiration and to work for the common good. or some people, that is intimately connected with a spiritual motivation and understanding. or other people it is decidedly not. hus is neutral in that regard. here is no imposition of any spiritual beliefs you have to have. ikewise, there is no imposition of any belief in the material sciences that you have to have.<br/><br/> is not left-wing or right-wing. t is about making the world work in a wholistic manner. his probably includes both individual freedom of choice and social responsibility. owever, as a whole has no agenda of political issues. ny member is free to be of any observation that they choose. <br/><br/> members aren't required to agree to anything, other than to work constructively on creating a world that works for all of us, and to be tolerant of other people's views. owever, certain values tend to emerge amongst us. ne expression of shared values, that many members seem to like, is found in the text "<a href="http://www.newciv.org/ncn/weare.html" id="posts_0x1_000383-000001_outside_link" target="_blank">e are the ew ivilization</a>". ut, again, you don't have to agree with every one of those points either. https://newciv.org/nl/newslog.php/__show_article/_a000383-000001/#com75848 Fri, 3 Nov 2006 17:54:34 UT https://newciv.org/nl/newslog.php/__show_article/_a000383-000001/#com75844 2006-11-03 16:30: comment by skillz on "ow is the time for all good men to come to the aid of their country.":<br/>ou said that allot better than i could of strid, i aint got much to say now.<br/><br/> bit of advice for you anae, go visit your local dealer and get yourself stoned! hen run through a meadow on a breezy day and climb a tree and smile at a beautiful stranger. <br/><br/>t will all make sense after that. https://newciv.org/nl/newslog.php/__show_article/_a000383-000001/#com75844 Fri, 3 Nov 2006 16:30:38 UT https://newciv.org/nl/newslog.php/__show_article/_a000383-000001/#com75825 2006-11-03 06:20: comment by <a href="https://newciv.org/nl/newslog.php/_v288">jobrown</a> on "ow is the time for all good men to come to the aid of their country.":<br/> didn't know you were capable of being so selective in your nderstanding. always thought of you as one of the most broad minded and intelligent educated people on !... <br/>ho/hat gave you your intelligence; ntuition, nspiration, magination, iscernment, nstinct/"utt feeling" etc etc. hat nstitution do you give credit for having handed those to you -if you think you do have any of those, god forbid autocratic, intolerant -wasn't that what you call them/me- spiritual skills? unny!.... got all my ental = "spiritual" ( a more modern word would be 'creative' ) skills by ife; "od" if you must, as put it. https://newciv.org/nl/newslog.php/__show_article/_a000383-000001/#com75825 Fri, 3 Nov 2006 06:20:28 UT https://newciv.org/nl/newslog.php/__show_article/_a000383-000001/#com75821 2006-11-03 02:06: comment by anae on "ow is the time for all good men to come to the aid of their country.":<br/> <br/>ost of all, the autocratic personality is intolerant of others viewpoints.<br/><br/>or the autocratic thinker there is only one way of doing things---the only way---and people should stop doing whatever it is they are doing to do things the way the autocratic thinker believes they ought to be done (the correct way).<br/><br/>ome people believe that overnment is the source of all problems and that the solution to the problem is to stop voting and stop paying taxes.<br/><br/> happen to think that things are a little bit more complex than that--- actually went to some length to try and explain why thought so in a comment above, <a href="http://www.newciv.org/nl/newslog.php/_v383/__show_article/_a000383-000001.htm#com75527" id="posts_0x1_000383-000001_outside_link" target="_blank">n overnance and mergent emocracy</a>.<br/><br/>he quote by ohn owles, in a follow-up comment, "hich are you trying to drink, the water or the wave?" was intended as a koan, an invitation to look further.<br/><br/>ther people, like the commenter above, happen to think that its more about using our "'od' given ental =spiritual kills!"<br/><br/> hate to say it, but none of the views above are really truly original--- mean, you realize that, dont you?---it must have been said hundreds of times many different ways by different people---most of whom, most of the time, cant seem to agree on anything. nd well one has come to expect it, still, it is always a bit disappointing, especially when it comes from members of a network with such a lofty mission statements as s.<br/><br/>hings get further complicated when things degenerate into flame wars and mind games (people playing dumb and what-have-you.)<br/><br/> gave a link somewhere in a comment above to an article by ing (reative ntelligence hrough ynergetic iversity) and one of the points of interest made in the article, thought, is that:<br/><br/>s it is right now, humankind is a schizophrenic moron. r manic-depressive, maybe. ometimes brilliant and productive, mostly lethargic, largely criminally destructive. espite that many members of the human race are well-meaning, knowledgeable and resourceful. e desperately need to be connected in a manner that is constructively complex, so as to awaken our collective intelligence. aybe that is something we can do on the internet, maybe it is a different way of doing a few key things. t appears that none of us are smart enough to solve the puzzle. ut we might be smart enough to discover patterns that allow something bigger to emerge. e might not be clever enough to know exactly how to do it, but we might know how to start something that triggers the emergence of a bigger level of intelligence.<br/><br/> like oberto effordss premise of "exploring new ideas of how to make this world a better place." <br/><br/>ow, oberto here was trying to work with our institutions and seeking ways to reclaim those institutions to get them to work, in his view, as they were supposed to in the first place, or maybe to get them to work in new ways, as perhaps, they were never intended to work, at the service of a world that works better for all. see nothing wrong with that.<br/><br/>ow, there are people who think it cannot be done, that this is all wrong, that it is complete bollix, and, well, the way see it, nobody is forcing them to work wit oberto. hats the beauty of , no one is forcing anyone else to do anything they do not want to do, eh? f ower y he eople and reclaiming our institutions is not your thing and there are other avenues of doing thing that you want to explore instead, by all means, do so.<br/><br/> majority of the people posting on , and on the nternet at large, are doing so with the awareness that many things are not right. nd they all look at things in their own ways. nd, who is wise enough to know who is right and who is wrong and what might come out of all this. here is power in diversity and in exploring different path and avenues.<br/><br/>s for our children, well, the question of education that was brought up somewhere in a comment above, is a good one. ve no problem with people who want to educate their children themselves, and considering what some of the alternatives happen to be, depending on ones environment, dont blame them. also know that there are great institutions of learning out there that can teach children what their parents could never teach them themselves and which can also open them to a greater diversity---a diversity which children will oftentimes seek themselves as they grow up, which is probably a good thing. he famous poem by ahlil iban comes to mind:<br/><br/>our children are not your children.<br/>hey are the sons and daughters of ife's longing for itself.<br/>hey come through you but not from you,<br/>nd though they are with you, yet they belong not to you.<br/>ou may give them your love but not your thoughts.<br/>or they have their own thoughts.<br/>ou may house their bodies but not their souls,<br/>or their souls dwell in the house of tomorrow, which you cannot visit, not even in your dreams.<br/>ou may strive to be like them, but seek not to make them like you.<br/><br/>ho knows what children will be like, they could become anything! ne of that commenter's own might even grow-up one day to become, what a dreadful thought,...a politician.<br/><br/>eace. https://newciv.org/nl/newslog.php/__show_article/_a000383-000001/#com75821 Fri, 3 Nov 2006 02:06:33 UT https://newciv.org/nl/newslog.php/__show_article/_a000383-000001/#com75810 2006-11-02 20:17: comment by <a href="https://newciv.org/nl/newslog.php/_v288">jobrown</a> on "ow is the time for all good men to come to the aid of their country.":<br/>... and say narkism or -governing (; the correct definition of the word)! umans are made by ife, "od" if you "must", to govern themselves perfectly in with around them... given a chance -and not raped, and denied to use their 'od' given ental =spiritual kills! et eople re-member /re-learn "how to" use these skills!.... <br/>hy don't we do it???? oz' we are so convinced that the niverse is one of and , so we always to compete/fight for that we can get our hands on -to guarantee our own survival!...<br/>t is this belief in -rich or poor, doesn't matter: we all believe that niverse is aplace where things need to faught for/over. the single few and far between individuals, who have regained their ental ealth enough to realize that niverse indeed is a lace of lenty, who don't need to fight for veything!... and these people also are the ones who don't need that much to -not only survive, but indeed they are doing great, and they are content and happy and at peace with ife! 's ?????? othing , if you ask me. would like to see it practised by to one hundred %, not least by me, myself! ( but at least know about it, understand fully and working on getting it all down to a tee, as the saying goes. ; ) )) https://newciv.org/nl/newslog.php/__show_article/_a000383-000001/#com75810 Thu, 2 Nov 2006 20:17:25 UT https://newciv.org/nl/newslog.php/__show_article/_a000383-000001/#com75804 2006-11-02 17:50: comment by <a href="https://newciv.org/nl/newslog.php/_v119">i2i</a> on "ow is the time for all good men to come to the aid of their country.":<br/>"he authoritarian personality...is or her frames or reference are so organized that they admit of no middle ground, no graduations in degree of truth or guilt or righteousness."<br/><br/>ichard posted a rather relevant <a href="http://www.newciv.org/pic/nl/artpic/119/000119-000095.gif" id="posts_0x1_000383-000001_outside_link" target="_blank">cartoon</a> about that, <a href="http://www.newciv.org/nl/newslog.php/_v63/__show_article/_a000063-000401.htm#com75774" id="posts_0x2_000383-000001_outside_link" target="_blank">here</a> on azzolog. https://newciv.org/nl/newslog.php/__show_article/_a000383-000001/#com75804 Thu, 2 Nov 2006 17:50:32 UT https://newciv.org/nl/newslog.php/__show_article/_a000383-000001/#com75797 2006-11-02 13:30: comment by skillz on "ow is the time for all good men to come to the aid of their country.":<br/>lets call the whole thing off.<br/><br/>t takes 2 to tango. do remember that our soldiers were killing foriegn people too. o what governments killing was justified, demo or auto? here is no denying that hitler was not a good man, but if he had'nt of steped up someone else would have. o you think that just because stalin or hitler may not have been born that we would'nt have had any wars and basicaly gloryfied murder? he whole world was at war no matter what their government represented. ou can give it many different names but ultimatly you just end up with a few incredebly wealthy and many poor. nd when the opotunaty arrises to make more money for the rich, from another countrys wealth, they take to war, the poor. ts all about , everything else is secondary no matter whether its autcratic or democratic. s long as the poor workers keep paying taxes to feed the rich the government will keep running no matter what name you give it. <br/><br/>as'nt it the people that voted in hitler? ave you read atthew ebbs artical on voting, under the log title ruth and evelation? https://newciv.org/nl/newslog.php/__show_article/_a000383-000001/#com75797 Thu, 2 Nov 2006 13:30:24 UT https://newciv.org/nl/newslog.php/__show_article/_a000383-000001/#com75791 2006-11-02 06:05: comment by anae on "ow is the time for all good men to come to the aid of their country.":<br/> <br/>he authoritarian personality brings to his or her view of the world a simple dichotomy; things are either right or wrong, good or bad, correct or incorrect, brilliant or dull, or belong in some similar two valued classification. is or her frames or reference are so organized that they admit of no middle ground, no graduations in degree of truth or guilt or righteousness. hoever is not for us is against us. he authoritarian thinkers insist that there are only two sides to every problem. ll of their considerations are colored by emotional disturbances, worry, and anxiety that further clouds their thinking. here is a rigidity in their views and understandings; they show an impatience with qualified as contrasted with unqualified statements; a disinclination to think in terms of probability; and a favoring of black-and-white stereotypes. <br/><br/>he authoritarian pattern of thinking is perhaps a fertile ground out of which the antidemocratic personality grows. he authoritarian thinker is not necessarily an autocratic personality, but the autocratic personality typically develops through an authoritarian stage. or surprisingly a weakness of autocracy lies in confusing loyalty with blind obedience. o itlers ermany the idea of a loyal opposition was self-contradictory. ne could not oppose of disagree without being disloyal. https://newciv.org/nl/newslog.php/__show_article/_a000383-000001/#com75791 Thu, 2 Nov 2006 06:05:29 UT https://newciv.org/nl/newslog.php/__show_article/_a000383-000001/#com75780 2006-11-01 19:43: comment by <a href="https://newciv.org/nl/newslog.php/_v119">i2i</a> on "ow is the time for all good men to come to the aid of their country.":<br/>" am a new member, and hope that can find a few, free thinking and optimistic people who can have a discussion, leaving all of their pre-conceived ideas of what is right or wrong in the shower, to explore new ideas of how to make this world a better place."<br/>[19 ct 2004 @ 18:16, by oberto effords]<br/><br/>reat post oberto - a promissing premise, in any case.<br/> <br/><br/> wonder if he'll return. https://newciv.org/nl/newslog.php/__show_article/_a000383-000001/#com75780 Wed, 1 Nov 2006 19:43:58 UT https://newciv.org/nl/newslog.php/__show_article/_a000383-000001/#com75771 2006-11-01 15:19: comment by skillz on "ow is the time for all good men to come to the aid of their country.":<br/>ve missquoted myself, it should have said the only way to actualy for real is the to learn the hardway. ow can you possibly understand the joy of finding love and the heartbrake of it ending if you've never experienced it. <br/>oops<br/>ou are spot on about me being lied to. hat is what drives me to come to this site and say stuff. ringing realization back to people if i can. nce you have realization you need not have to be shown the truth, it all manifests itself, and then once you have clarity, there aint no politition, book or word of an "expert" who can lie to you or tell you otherwise. he truth never lies.<br/><br/>iddick - s you say, common sense is all we need. heck out my artical on the subject.<br/><br/>anae - top having faith in the polititions to save us. hey are there to control us not to give us control. he system umploys them and the systems odjective is to make money and that money is given to the people that need it the most - the filthy stinkin rich. n order for them to stay filthy we must remain poor. https://newciv.org/nl/newslog.php/__show_article/_a000383-000001/#com75771 Wed, 1 Nov 2006 15:19:24 UT https://newciv.org/nl/newslog.php/__show_article/_a000383-000001/#com75747 2006-11-01 02:51: comment by anae on "ow is the time for all good men to come to the aid of their country.":<br/> <br/>hanks for the link, iddick, actually had read ritannicas response already, as usually try to read various sides of a story, including, in this instance, the viewpoint of ritannica, one of the parties under scrutiny in the study.<br/>ust for balance this is a <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ikipedia:xternal_peer_review" id="posts_0x1_000383-000001_outside_link" target="_blank">link</a> to ikipedias viewpoint, the other party under scrutiny. n a typical ikipedia fashion, youll find there is an attempt there at covering both sides of the stories (including ritannicas response), and then some.<br/><br/>lso, for the record, for its study, ature chose articles from both sites in a wide range of topics and sent them to what it called relevant field experts for peer review. he experts then compared the competing articlesone from each site on a given topicside by side, but were not told which article came from which site.<br/><br/>ut this is probably not the place to begin a thread about ikipedia. he point is that the fact that people are even having a debate about which of ritannica or ikipedia is the most accurate of the two, takes us, think, a long way already from the predictions of the nay-sayers who predicted the worse about ikipedia and said it would be chaos and would never work.<br/><br/> believe the nay-sayers will be proven wrong about the truth-predictor or, at least, about the nternet in general, for exactly the same reasons they were wrong about ikipedia: diversity and pluralism can be a workable synergistic instrument of truth.<br/><br/>oliticians know that one can say things that cannot be done. nd most of them will do so, if they can get away with it and it works in their favor, or appears to be the populist thing to do---ell people what they want to hear. r scare or delude people into accepting as a necessity policies they would normally oppose---heyll do it because investigative reporting is not what it used to be and reporters will let them get away with it. he trick is to keep the focus on what is being said and not on what can be done. here is some hope that the nternet will be an instrument that helps bring the focus back on meaningful debates about what can be done or things of interest that could be done in this country or in the world regardless of whether politicians or the media are talking about them or not. <br/><br/>y prediction is that soon (and there are signs that it might be already happening) it is not the nternet that will be looking at what politicians are doing but the politicians who will be looking at the nternet, looking for what the people is doing---the dreams, hopes, concerns and expectations of the people who put them into office and whose interest (the common good) they are suppose to represent. nd shouldnt that be the way it is! hey will also hopefully find a people, who, collectively, is much better informed than it ever was; more engaged, too; quicker, smarter, and pro-active! uch a welcome change would be more consistent with the essential thesis of democracy which has respect for, and places responsibility in, the individuals at the grass roots, and there is thus some hope that the current dependence upon fear and the wisdom of autocratic leaders to provide solutions to all problems might possibly become, at long last, a thing of the past. https://newciv.org/nl/newslog.php/__show_article/_a000383-000001/#com75747 Wed, 1 Nov 2006 02:51:48 UT https://newciv.org/nl/newslog.php/__show_article/_a000383-000001/#com75746 2006-11-01 01:19: comment by iddick on "ow is the time for all good men to come to the aid of their country.":<br/>anae,<br/><br/>ts important to note that the ature article you cite isnt a peer reviewed scientific study, its a casual review at best, and one which suffered from a number of methodological errors. or instance, ature sent one reviewer a 300 word introduction to a 6500 word article, who cited the ritannica article for omitting key information (that was covered in the 6200 words the reviewer didnt see).<br/><br/>nd of course, not all errors are created equal. or instance, a ature reviewer prefers the spelling "rotona" to ritannicas "rotone". he proper nglish spelling of the name of this talian town might be a bit hard to pin down, but the .. oard on eographic ames and other sources agree with ritannica on this. ature reviewers cited some ikipedia articles as "highly misleading" or "absolutely wrong". re these problems really comparable? ature reported them as if they were.<br/><br/>lthough several errors within ritannica were identified by the ature review (and corrected as fast if not faster than the errors in ikipedia), ritannica wrote a detailed response to the study, citing profound errors in the studys premise and methodology. ee http://corporate.britannica.com/britannica_nature_response.pdf for more. https://newciv.org/nl/newslog.php/__show_article/_a000383-000001/#com75746 Wed, 1 Nov 2006 01:19:33 UT https://newciv.org/nl/newslog.php/__show_article/_a000383-000001/#com75745 2006-11-01 00:49: comment by anae on "ow is the time for all good men to come to the aid of their country.":<br/> <br/>ne of the extraordinary stories of the nternet age is that of ikipedia, a free online encyclopedia that anyone can edit.<br/><br/>he questions and apprehensions raised about the nternet with regard to spinning, distortions of facts, or the promotion of bias through a balkanization of opinions were also once raised, in the same manner, and for the same reasons, about ikipedia.<br/><br/>nterestingly, ature magazine conducted, last year (ecember) <a href="http://www.nature.com/news/2005/051212/full/438900a.html" id="posts_0x1_000383-000001_outside_link" target="_blank">link</a> a head-to-head comparison between ikipedia and ritannica, having experts compare 42 science-related articles. he result was that ikipedia had about 4 errors per article, while ritannica had about 3. ot a significant difference! (urthermore, the ikipedia articles in the sample were, on average, 2.6 times longer than ritannicas - meaning ikipedia has an error rate far less than ritannicas.)<br/><br/>t is foreseeable that the same mechanics at work that serve ikipedia now, and possibly new and unexpected ways of doing things, will, for the same reasons and in a similar fashion, also serve truth in such a way as people like ric chmidt from oogle is envisioning.<br/><br/>urthermore, most errors and distortions - especially when they are purposeful (like for propaganda purpose) are typically factual errors, more commonly such distortions are based on omissions, often deliberate (e.g. cherry-picking), or misleading statements (the example of the raqs brought up by the commenter above is a good one). nd the nternet has proved, so far, an invaluable remedy against both types of disinformation! https://newciv.org/nl/newslog.php/__show_article/_a000383-000001/#com75745 Wed, 1 Nov 2006 00:49:08 UT https://newciv.org/nl/newslog.php/__show_article/_a000383-000001/#com75732 2006-10-31 18:47: comment by iddick on "ow is the time for all good men to come to the aid of their country.":<br/> cant see it how it could ever work. ho decides what is true? s it determined by how many results claim its true, or by how many experts it can find that support it. n which case how does it determine who/what is an expert?<br/><br/>"t has broken down the barriers that exist between people and information, effectively democratizing access to human knowledge."<br/> <br/>ut it is also "alkanizing" people in that we all seem to be self-selecting our information providers, and forming online echo-chambers<br/>i.e. <br/>ow many "iberals" get their news from ews orp websites?<br/>ow many "onservatives" regularly visit imes.com?<br/><br/>his would probably work great if the politician quotes a direct experience study, it could determine if they quoted the study correctly, but what about s? o one will ever come to agreement on that. <br/><br/>nd how can we know the info on the nternet is the truth, uh? ow can we know its not been manipulated? t has a hypnotic screen, just like television, doesnt make any of what you read there . think we should stick with the good old common sense. https://newciv.org/nl/newslog.php/__show_article/_a000383-000001/#com75732 Tue, 31 Oct 2006 18:47:44 UT