en https://newciv.org/nl/newslog.php/_v506/ http://www.newciv.org/news/Images/ncnicon2-s.gif https://newciv.org/nl/newslog.php/_v506/ 88 31 OrgSpace NewsLog 1.87 Thu, 13 Oct 2016 11:35:39 UT Thu, 13 Oct 2016 11:35:39 UT http://blogs.law.harvard.edu/tech/rss 180 https://newciv.org/nl/newslog.php/__show_article/_a000506-000001/#com318639 2016-10-13 11:35: comment by <a href="http://imoappdownload.com">imo</a> on "rolling - 1":<br/>ood post https://newciv.org/nl/newslog.php/__show_article/_a000506-000001/#com318639 Thu, 13 Oct 2016 11:35:39 UT https://newciv.org/nl/newslog.php/__show_article/_a000506-000002/#com266924 2016-04-29 08:54: comment by <a href="http:/www.yakuza4d.com">andar ogel</a> on "rolling - 2":<br/>ogel nline ingapore<br/>ogel nline ongkong<br/>andar ogel ingapore<br/>andar ogel<br/>ogel nline erpercaya<br/>andar ogel nline erpercaya<br/>ogel nline<br/>gen ogel nline erpercaya<br/>gen ogel nline https://newciv.org/nl/newslog.php/__show_article/_a000506-000002/#com266924 Fri, 29 Apr 2016 08:54:42 UT https://newciv.org/nl/newslog.php/__show_article/_a000506-000005/#com266921 2016-04-29 08:54: comment by <a href="http:/www.yakuza4d.com">andar ogel</a> on "rolling - 3":<br/>ogel nline ingapore<br/>ogel nline ongkong<br/>andar ogel ingapore<br/>andar ogel<br/>ogel nline erpercaya<br/>andar ogel nline erpercaya<br/>ogel nline<br/>gen ogel nline erpercaya<br/>gen ogel nline https://newciv.org/nl/newslog.php/__show_article/_a000506-000005/#com266921 Fri, 29 Apr 2016 08:54:03 UT https://newciv.org/nl/newslog.php/__show_article/_a000506-000001/#com257926 2016-03-31 08:45: comment by <a href="http://www.amazon.com/hris-aptain-mer">mazon</a> on "rolling - 1":<br/>hanks for the post es agree, he should get some of those huge images and big bold text and make people scroll a lot to read a little bit of content. https://newciv.org/nl/newslog.php/__show_article/_a000506-000001/#com257926 Thu, 31 Mar 2016 08:45:34 UT https://newciv.org/nl/newslog.php/__show_article/_a000506-000001/#com197436 2015-03-20 12:19: comment by <a href="http://www.desireleather.com/product/tom">op un acket esireeather</a> on "rolling - 1":<br/> read blogs on a similar topic, but i never visited your blog. added it to favorites and ill be your constant reader. https://newciv.org/nl/newslog.php/__show_article/_a000506-000001/#com197436 Fri, 20 Mar 2015 12:19:32 UT https://newciv.org/nl/newslog.php/__show_article/_a000506-000001/#com192423 2014-12-27 11:37: comment by <a href="http://www.fitjackets.com/products/ick-">itackets ick rimes acket</a> on "rolling - 1":<br/>his post is very useful and creates much influence through the written phrases. ccording to the topic! https://newciv.org/nl/newslog.php/__show_article/_a000506-000001/#com192423 Sat, 27 Dec 2014 11:37:52 UT https://newciv.org/nl/newslog.php/__show_article/_a000506-000005/#com89746 2007-12-28 04:29: comment by <a href="https://newciv.org/nl/newslog.php/_v119">i2i</a> on "rolling - 3":<br/>hank you for the chukle, jazzolog. he orld ide eb is, well, "," and being as it is that one of the qualities of is that it has been intent in keeping "simple, explicit and redundant," just don't find it necessary to come and visit here as often as used to, so only just saw this comment today.<br/><br/> am not sure who that "wild wizard named zzie" is, but using the date have referenced this back to a couple of comments on an old entry about <a href="http://ming.tv/flemming2.php/__show_article/_a000010-001883.htm" id="posts_0x1_000506-000005_outside_link" target="_blank">mergence and emocracy</a>:<br/><br/>"azzolog, ...you half the time act as a troll in places such as this." <br/>---24 ul 2007 @ 12:09 by ming <br/><br/>and<br/><br/>"ust back from trolling recovery therapy (they didn't think have such a bad case apparently)."<br/>---30 ul 2007 @ 12:11 by jazzolog<br/><br/>or what it's worth, jazzolog is (, of course) one of the few ongoing active blogs on this network, whose writeup and range of interests attest to the commitment and caring participation of its author to . o, that his input could be dismissed as trolling, by the web administrator of this network, even as casually and inconsequentially as it was done, is a very unfortunate thing, indeed. <br/><br/> can't say that the intent of rolling was ever to offer "trolling recovery therapy," , but it did generate a valuable thread worthy of interest to anyone who is interested in online grass-roots democracy. <br/><br/>ho gets to speak?<br/>ho gets to set the topic?<br/><br/><br/><br/>evin arks, <a href="http://epeus.blogspot.com/2003_04_01_epeus_archive.html#200220219" id="posts_0x2_000506-000005_outside_link" target="_blank">here</a>, almost five years ago, summarized the issue quite succinctly. e spoke of the recurring phenomenon of mergent ristocracy, an issue which has been plaguing all forms of governance, or attempts at self-governance, with which man has been experimenting, so far:<br/><br/>--------------quote-----------<br/> <br/>he history of democracy can be seen as successive (and expanding) answers to the questions:<br/>ho gets to vote?<br/>ho gets to speak?<br/>ho gets to set the topic?<br/>(...)<br/>n a deliberative body, elaborate rules are adopted to ensure only one person speaks at a time.<br/><br/>here is an inherent funneling of debate because of these procedures.<br/><br/>onversely, online there are millions of conversations happening in parallel, topics are introduced daily, and votes are largely spurious.<br/><br/>he challenge is help these conversations to focus, converge and produce action.<br/><br/>-------------endquote--------------------<br/><br/> would say that ideally, the best system would consist of an autosorting, self-organizing structure that would allow such convergences to occur automatically without any human intervention, and in which spam would become obsolete simply as a result of its irrelevance. <br/><br/><a href="http://hartnesslibrarysystem.wordpress.com/2007/04/09/state-of-the-blogosphere-2007-report/" id="posts_0x3_000506-000005_outside_link" target="_blank">ere</a> is echnorati's last pril tate of the ive eb report.<br/><br/> few highlights: <br/><br/>- 70 million weblogs tracked at the time<br/>- t a rate (ever increasing) of about 120,000 new weblogs each day, or<br/>- 1.4 new blogs every second<br/>- 3000-7000 new splogs (fake, or spam blogs) created every day (with a peak of 11,000 splogs per day on ecember 2006.)<br/>- 1.5 million posts per day, or<br/>- 17 posts per second<br/>- rowing from 35 to 75 million blogs took 320 days<br/>- apanese the #1 blogging language at 37%<br/>- nglish second at 33%<br/>- hinese third at 8%<br/>- talian fourth at 3%<br/>- arsi a newcomer in the top 10 at 1%<br/>- nglish the most even in postings around-the-clock<br/>- racking 230 million posts with tags or categories<br/><br/>ore recently <a href="http://technorati.com/about/" id="posts_0x4_000506-000005_outside_link" target="_blank">echnocrati</a> has been tracking some 112.8 million blogs and over 250 million pieces of tagged social media.<br/><br/>nyway, such reports are not without controversy. here are some disagreements over whether or not "31% of the blogs were written in apanese," and there are those who claim that the logosphere eport has been more of a -tool and money maker for echnorati than a reliable source of information. o me, the whole point is that the report is touching at the extraordinary multiplicity and complexity of the orld ide eb and at how little anyone really knows about it.<br/> <br/>yberspace is a medium which is literally revolutionizing the way in which people can communicate and exchange ideas with one another. ore than that, it is becoming <a href="http://www.newciv.org/nl/newslog.php/_v97/__show_article/_a000097-000086.htm" id="posts_0x5_000506-000005_outside_link" target="_blank">an extension of our senses</a>.<br/><br/>n a recent entry on his blog, ming, the web administrator and founder of , who apparently shares in the current eitgeist in this renewed interest about multiple dimensions, reflected that "the space of information we now live in has a great many dimensions to it, many more dimensions than we've lived in before, many more degrees of freedom. et all our tools have only a very small number of dimensions to them, and many limits and restrictions."<br/><br/>he way comments are handled on most blogs and networks, is one good example.he ability for readers to leave comments in an interactive format is an important part of many blogs, and, although we like to speak of "multi-dimensionality," it is an unfortunate thing that the comments section, most blog providers make available to their users, is, well, usually pretty linear. retty much unfolding like a ineland dimension from out of <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/latland" id="posts_0x6_000506-000005_outside_link" target="_blank">latland</a>. <br/> <br/>ne of the things liked about the <a href="http://www.newciv.org/nl/newslog.php/_v507//" id="posts_0x7_000506-000005_outside_link" target="_blank">angencies</a> extension, was the ability it offered to extend the comments on a thread as well as , making it possible to take the thread - very literally so - in any new direction of anyone's choosing.<br/> <br/>angencies is too cumbersome a way to go about it, of course. deally, instead of being left at the discretion (and time-consuming demanding active participation) of a blog owner, this option could be a feature that would be matter-of-factly integrated in the comments section for anyone to use. s, virtually, there is no limit to the number of horizontal tangents one could create on such a thread (or "tree"), whether one chooses to navigate vertically or horizontally would be a very grass-roots kind of a thing and pretty much left to the discretion of the participants, based on their interest, and their mood (and whimsy) and what they are inspired to contribute.<br/><br/>ther dimensions could be easily added, like a dimension of time (a "time thread"): how often (where and when) has this topic come up in the past. dmittedly more difficult to implement, of course, it could be useful in assessing the progress of a network. s the network moving forward? r is it going in circles? <br/><br/>omments management is an aspect of blogging on the internet that has been much neglected. erhaps, because there is not much of a market for it. here is a bit of an offer-and-demand kind of a thing in this. o that regard, many blogs are just like so many points of latland (sole inhabitant, monarch, and universe in one), and in ointlands - except for the token sycophantic praise - comments can be of a limited interest to their self-absorbed monarchs. nd on the other side of the equation, developers often are less concerned about developing tools for complex and effective communication than they are about the potential for the commercial exploitation of their users. nd maybe this is the way it's meant to be; there are tools (like oogle) that make it easier and easier for people to find one another and to collaborate where such collaboration is desired, and am sure that in such instances e-mails and the various existing forms of blogs and other media available on the web are perfectly adequate to their needs. https://newciv.org/nl/newslog.php/__show_article/_a000506-000005/#com89746 Fri, 28 Dec 2007 04:29:57 UT https://newciv.org/nl/newslog.php/__show_article/_a000506-000005/#com84785 2007-07-25 09:54: comment by <a href="https://newciv.org/nl/newslog.php/_v63">jazzolog</a> on "rolling - 3":<br/> just was changed into a roll by a wild wizard named zzie! thought 'd better turn myself in to this roup og. s this the right spot to surrender? https://newciv.org/nl/newslog.php/__show_article/_a000506-000005/#com84785 Wed, 25 Jul 2007 09:54:41 UT https://newciv.org/nl/newslog.php/__show_article/_a000506-000005/#com71994 2006-07-11 01:49: comment by <a href="https://newciv.org/nl/newslog.php/_v13">bushman</a> on "rolling - 3":<br/> would, but alass, can't partake in the spirits, "any longer", grape juice or sparkling cider, is as far as go these days. runken pirates are one thing, a sober one is something else. :} mm, thought uxtaposition was a new rock band. ut found out just now it is a new by adian, an ustralian band. like what heard so far, so maybe might buy it. https://newciv.org/nl/newslog.php/__show_article/_a000506-000005/#com71994 Tue, 11 Jul 2006 01:49:22 UT https://newciv.org/nl/newslog.php/__show_article/_a000506-000005/#com71992 2006-07-11 00:18: comment by <a href="https://newciv.org/nl/newslog.php/_v119">i2i</a> on "rolling - 3":<br/>"ouble, double, toil and trouble; fire, burn; and caldron, bubble."<br/><br/>"here's daggers in men's smiles: the near in blood, the nearer bloody..."<br/><br/>verything you say is very perceptive of you, artha, can tell you have been a long time member of and you obviously know what you're talking about.<br/><br/>ll your points are well taken - couldn't agree more - actually we went over all that with ushman already (kind of.) like ushman's style ( don't always agree with him on everything - nor do need to in order to get along with him - but like his style.) n so far as can tell, he is not the kind of man who encumbers himself with such things as doublespeak, and although his style is not always that of hakespeare, the man does make sense...to me....well, sometimes. nd, to his credit, the creation of angencies, and evolution from rolling (about which one might complain - rightly so - that too much room is left for unfair "juxtaposition"), was directly inspired by his comment ( always read all comments very carefully, or try to, anyway, especially the ones that contain an element of "constructive criticism." <a href="http://www.newciv.org/nl/newslog.php/_v506/__show_article/_a000506-000005.htm#com71919" id="posts_0x1_000506-000005_outside_link" target="_blank">link</a>)<br/><br/>ll right, think 'll have that beer now - 'd rather pass on the troll stew though, if you don't mind :}<br/><br/>(nd believe that ushman would probably rather have a bottle of rum!) https://newciv.org/nl/newslog.php/__show_article/_a000506-000005/#com71992 Tue, 11 Jul 2006 00:18:41 UT https://newciv.org/nl/newslog.php/__show_article/_a000506-000005/#com71990 2006-07-10 23:01: comment by martha on "rolling - 3":<br/>ust to further clairify the above and above and so forth, one must also consider the case of ...<br/><br/>"uxtaposition is an act or instance of placing two things close together or side by side. his is often done in order to compare/contrast the two, to show similarities or differences, etc.<br/>n logic, juxtaposition is a logical fallacy on the part of the observer, where two items placed next to each other imply a correlation, when none is actually claimed. or example, an illustration of a politician and dolf itler on the same page would imply that the politician had a common ideology with itler. imilarly, saying "itler was in favor of gun control, and so are you" would have the same effect. (see eductio ad itlerum)" [<a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/uxtaposition" id="posts_0x1_000506-000005_outside_link" target="_blank">link</a>]<br/><br/>nd to further complicate the ssue(s) is the idea of ...(sigh)<br/><br/>"olitical correctness (also politically correct, .. or ) is a term used to describe language that appears calculated to provide a minimum of offense, particularly to the racial, cultural, or other identity groups being described. he term is normally used in a pejorative or ironic sense. he concept typically refers to the nglish language, but is not exclusive to it. text that conforms to the ideals of political correctness is said to be politically correct." [<a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/olitical_correctness" id="posts_0x2_000506-000005_outside_link" target="_blank">link</a>]<br/><br/>o you see if you keep digging, there is always more logic (of a sort) to mix into the cauldron...(sigh, sigh) ne man's logis is....oh never mind.<br/><br/>h and one more thing...<br/>oublespeak is language deliberately constructed to disguise or distort its actual meaning, often resulting in a "communication bypass". uch language is associated with governmental, military, and corporate institutions. oublespeak may be in the form of bald euphemisms ("downsizing" for "firing of many employees") or deliberately ambiguous phrases ("wet work" for "assassination"). oublespeak is distinguished from other euphemisms through its deliberate usage by governmental, military, or corporate institutions. [<a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/oublespeak" id="posts_0x3_000506-000005_outside_link" target="_blank">link</a>]<br/><br/>o in conclusion (of a sort) 'm going to scrub out the cauldron and make some stew (don't ask) to serve the trolls with some fresh french bread, english pudding, and good old american beer (from the keg of course)..ow wait now i am certainly not trying to bribe anyone. t's just that in this day and age this sort of...(sigh). https://newciv.org/nl/newslog.php/__show_article/_a000506-000005/#com71990 Mon, 10 Jul 2006 23:01:06 UT https://newciv.org/nl/newslog.php/__show_article/_a000506-000005/#com71986 2006-07-10 20:35: comment by <a href="https://newciv.org/nl/newslog.php/_v119">i2i</a> on "rolling - 3":<br/>"hings to cherish: our regulars. sense of community. eal expertise. enuine engagement with the subject under discussion. utstanding performances. elping others. ooperation in maintenance of a good conversation..."<br/><br/>via eresa ielsen ayden via oing oing via ing the echanic via anae...lol<br/><br/>sn't the internet grand? hank you, anae.<br/><br/>s a quick follow-through, d like to add that comments which relevancy to a given post is unclear do occur now and then (its not necessarily a bad thing - note that "lack of relevance" to a given topic on a post is in no way intended to mean "lack of interest" intrinsic to the comment itself), and when it happens there are many ways in which this can be followed through - or not.<br/><br/>t greatly depends on the motives of the author of the comment, of course. <br/><br/>ike, for example: s the author posting out of relevance intentionally or unintentionally? s the authors aim to contribute to the thread or is he/she simply trying to annoy, or disrupt the thread? s the author off the mark because he/she just missed the point or is he/she deliberately dense? s the author too witty for the rest of us (causing us to miss the relevance of his/her comment) or is the author, in fact, too witty for his/her own self, just trying to impress and look smarter than his/her brothers/sisters?<br/><br/>t is a murky territory and it is prudent to proceed in those things with caution.<br/><br/>ase in point - loosely related to the present post ( am just using it without specificity - as an example because its here and its easy):<br/><br/>omeone launches a post which main theme is essentially "m my brother's keeper?" and features on this post an article that basically asks more or less the same question in a socio-political context of our government.<br/><br/>ow, a commenter comes along and post something on that thread about the nature of the soul as "that which leaves the body at point of body death." <br/><br/>he moderator joins the thread and enter a comment that brings back the thread to the topic.<br/><br/>he commenter comes back and asks "o what do we know ow about how humans came to be on arth, what we are and what happens precisely at point of body death?"<br/><br/>nd then another commenter comes along responding to the first commenter: "hatever we imagine," and launches into a comment of its own that take us even further from the topic at hand.<br/><br/>s a moderator one usually tries not to jump to conclusions and prejudge what's really going on there. he two commenters might be sincere. he first commenter is very interested in the subject he/she has chosen to talk about. ossibly he/she might have missed the point of the article on which he/she posted (after all ain and bel are characters who do take us back to enesis and the question of the origin of man and woman.) he second commenter might be animated by the same kind of passion and eagerness about the things of which he likes to talk about (especially if the said commenter had been noted to be posting the same kind of comments all over the place on many newslogs regardless of their content.)<br/><br/>s a moderator one doesn't want to kill the diversity either. he moderator might think, "well, this is not really what the article posted was about, but, hey, this sub-thread might lead us somewhere else entirely that might be just equally interesting. n the other hand, the moderator doesn't want others to kill the diversity either. commenter who just use other's newslog as his/her personal soapbox regardless of the content of any given newslog does have a tendency to get tiresome very fast.<br/><br/>he moderator must also be vigilant to the fact that the intention of the commenters might possibly not be what they seem - point 10 in anae's commnent (above) <br/><br/>he moderator must also consider whether the comment just happens to be off topic or whether there is possibly there a deliberate effort to kill the thread or the topic.<br/><br/>he way situations like this have been handled varies:<br/><br/>1. he moderator can acknowledge politely the commenters's participation, and then try to bring the thread back to the topic.<br/><br/>(his won't work if the commenters are particularly obtuse, or obsessive, or in situation 10 described in anae's comment above.)<br/><br/>2. he moderator can chose to ignore what's going on, and let the thread go any which way it will go. <br/><br/>3. he moderator might even join in the thread and play along in a free-flow sort of a thing (which can be, at times, a desired evolution depending on the topic and the moderators purpose it doesnt work for every post, and neither should it be a desired evolution that every post, no matter their topic, be treated in that way.)<br/><br/>4. he moderator can ask the commenter for an explanation.<br/><br/>5. he moderator can warn the commenter<br/><br/>(the problem with these last two is covered in point 5 of anae's comment above.)<br/><br/>6. he moderator can delete comments<br/><br/>nd, in extreme cases, the owner of the newslog can:<br/><br/>7. block the commenters themselves<br/><br/>8. turn the comment option off altogether.<br/><br/>ll of this is of course extremely delicate. <br/><br/>ome moderators do all of the above.<br/><br/>rolling and then <a href="http://www.newciv.org/nl/newslog.php/_v507//" id="posts_0x1_000506-000005_outside_link" target="_blank">angencies</a> (an evolution of rolling) has been an experiment in trying to explore what would happen if comments with a potential to branch out into a new unrelated topic were transplanted to a ground of their own and just see what would come off them, if anything. https://newciv.org/nl/newslog.php/__show_article/_a000506-000005/#com71986 Mon, 10 Jul 2006 20:35:53 UT https://newciv.org/nl/newslog.php/__show_article/_a000506-000005/#com71984 2006-07-10 20:02: comment by martha on "rolling - 3":<br/>to jump to conclusions i2i. t might an imposter trying to confuse the issue. ne never really knows what can happen here at . here are several here that claim to read code quite well so they might be tinkering with names. hile 'm not implying , never the less it is a possibility!<br/><br/>"10 ul 2006 @ 19:53 by i2i : arklander<br/>echnically, axen, that request would have to come from darklander. urthermore the material quoted (a quote by huang zu and a quote from the reat oviet ictionary, ixth dition 1992) is not proprietary to you or to darklander. <br/><br/>'ll take your word for it that you are darklander however and will remove the name "darklander" from the above if you feel it is prejudiciable to you as some people may identify you as darklander. "<br/><br/>he internet is a new frontier, though think not the final frontier! o in this new frontier all sorts or anomilies can happen like time warps and lets say...hmmm name changes for example. https://newciv.org/nl/newslog.php/__show_article/_a000506-000005/#com71984 Mon, 10 Jul 2006 20:02:21 UT https://newciv.org/nl/newslog.php/__show_article/_a000506-000005/#com71953 2006-07-10 05:53: comment by <a href="https://newciv.org/nl/newslog.php/_v13">bushman</a> on "rolling - 3":<br/>ust to keep the record strait, tryed to kill my brother a few times, the first time he was maybe a little over a year old, was almost 3, and knew exacly what was doing, had to get rid of the interloper, my chance came one sunny day, mom left him near a hill in the back yard, the train tracks down at the bottom far below, heard the train comming, he was in his stroller, he was almost off on his way to catch the train, but right then, as it was starting to roll on its own, mom grabs the thing away, and says no way, your not going to kill your brother. was too small to argue, lol. ut 'm glad didn't kill him now. :} https://newciv.org/nl/newslog.php/__show_article/_a000506-000005/#com71953 Mon, 10 Jul 2006 05:53:01 UT https://newciv.org/nl/newslog.php/__show_article/_a000506-000005/#com71952 2006-07-10 04:57: comment by <a href="https://newciv.org/nl/newslog.php/_v308">vaxen</a> on "rolling - 3":<br/>. https://newciv.org/nl/newslog.php/__show_article/_a000506-000005/#com71952 Mon, 10 Jul 2006 04:57:16 UT https://newciv.org/nl/newslog.php/__show_article/_a000506-000005/#com71947 2006-07-09 23:00: comment by <a href="https://newciv.org/nl/newslog.php/_v13">bushman</a> on "rolling - 3":<br/>lol, look alot and sometimes act, like aptian ack parrow, if dont shave, but ya, would look pretty cool in that getup, kind of like that ionel uthor look too. :} hen ran my chat room , would have it rated from 6am to 10pm, then between 10pm and 12am, after midnight it was 18 or older and rated , but anything and above was deleted and the persons booted, of course this was realtime chat, and was usualy concensus vote, when someone needed the boot. hose are pretty common rules, like to say, "just be civilized".<br/><br/>-----------------------------------------<br/><br/>aptain ack parrow, uh? hat will do by me, matey! figure you must be a pirate for the irate's ode to apply :} he ode is more what you'd call "guidelines" than actual rules. elcome aboard the lack earl, ack! <br/><br/> https://newciv.org/nl/newslog.php/__show_article/_a000506-000005/#com71947 Sun, 9 Jul 2006 23:00:49 UT https://newciv.org/nl/newslog.php/__show_article/_a000506-000005/#com71926 2006-07-09 16:55: comment by anae on "rolling - 3":<br/> <br/>ia oing oing via <a href="http://ming.tv/flemming2.php/__show_article/_a000010-001459.htm" id="posts_0x1_000506-000005_outside_link" target="_blank">ing the echanic</a>:<br/> <br/>1. here can be no ongoing discourse without some degree of moderation, if only to kill off the hardcore trolls. t takes rather more moderation than that to create a complex, nuanced, civil discourse. f you want that to happen, you have to give of yourself. roviding the space but not tending the conversation is like expecting that your front yard will automatically turn itself into a garden. <br/><br/>2. nce you have a well-established online conversation space, with enough regulars to explain the local mores to newcomers, theyll do a lot of the policing themselves. <br/><br/>3. ou own the space. ou host the conversation. ou dont own the community. espect their needs. or instance, if youre going away for a while, dont shut down your comment area. ive them an open thread to play with, so theyll still be there when you get back. <br/><br/>4. essage persistence rewards people who write good comments. <br/><br/>5. ver-specific rules are an invitation to people who get off on gaming the system. <br/><br/>6. ivil speech and impassioned speech are not opposed and mutually exclusive sets. eing interesting trumps any amount of conventional politeness. <br/><br/>7. hings to cherish: our regulars. sense of community. eal expertise. enuine engagement with the subject under discussion. utstanding performances. elping others. ooperation in maintenance of a good conversation. aking the time to teach newbies the ropes. <br/><br/>8. rant more lenience to participants who are only part-time jerks, as long as theyre valuable the rest of the time. <br/><br/>9. f you judge that a post is offensive, upsetting, or just plain unpleasant, its important to get rid of it, or at least make it hard to read. o it as quickly as possible. heres no more useless advice than to tell people to just ignore such things. e cant. e automatically read what falls under our eyes. <br/><br/>10. nother important rule: ou can let one jeering, unpleasant jerk hang around for a while, but the minute you get two or more of them egging each other on, they both have to go, and all their recent messages with them. here are others like them prowling the net, looking for just that kind of situation. ore of them will turn up, and theyll encourage each other to behave more and more outrageously. ill them quickly and have no regrets. <br/><br/>11. ou cant automate intelligence. n theory, systems like lashdots ought to work better than they do. aintaining a conversation is a task for human beings. <br/><br/>12. isemvowelling works. onsider it. <br/><br/>13. f someone youve disemvowelled comes back and behaves, forgive and forget their earlier gaffes. oure acting in the service of civility, not abstract justice. https://newciv.org/nl/newslog.php/__show_article/_a000506-000005/#com71926 Sun, 9 Jul 2006 16:55:53 UT https://newciv.org/nl/newslog.php/__show_article/_a000506-000005/#com71925 2006-07-09 16:54: comment by <a href="https://newciv.org/nl/newslog.php/_v13">bushman</a> on "rolling - 3":<br/>k, :} like angencies, mean not that rolls are always bad, like those cute roll dolls, they did show as a good roll. ut as well, world wide persons wouldn't see the roll thats cute, since it's a log, being a logroll sheds negative light on those that get published there. asicly in my eyes, it's more like a list of trouble makers. don't know, as diverse as the world still is today, it's pretty hard to tell if someones takeing a piss or doing something else, and sometimes one persons piss is another persons life giving fountain. just found it better to assume/judge peoples comments in a positive way first, only because it really is extreemly easy to take a comment the wrong way. as easy for me to misinterpit your intent or policy on your main log, now feel must wear a suit and tie, to be able to sit at your round table discusions, strait faced and proper. ocial darwinisim, is that basicly the same as social evolution? mm, what governments/corperations do, is neither, just looks that way, just my oppinion that once any man/gov/corp medals in the free will of a population, its no longer evolution happening, guess you, or a poster, sort of mentions that nazi eugenics thing. ve had my share of gov shrinks tell me not to have any more kids , because m so hyperactive, lol. see so many things and views within comments and posts, so many ways to read it and apply it to other less visable aspects, it's hard to know what the focus of a dialog is, at least for me. ow is a post going to help the masses, if you have to have a dictionary and thasarus for every other word? ou almost have to have a , to read most of whats published here on , don't get me wrong, theres nothing wrong with posts that take lots of extra study. ust to me, your log is demanding a certine level of education, and should state that, and is just my oppinion. s well, if someone is obviously pissing, with malis, in your house, 'd help you toss them out the door. :}<br/> <br/>-----------------------------------------<br/><br/>mmm...what a thought. think you'd look <a href="http://www.newciv.org/pic/nl/artpic/232/000232-000558.jpg" id="posts_0x1_000506-000005_outside_link" target="_blank">quite fetching in a suit</a> :} entlemen attending are welcome to dress in formal attire if they would like, but it is not required. t's not the suit that makes the man, ushman, lol. o just come as you are, whenever and wherever, my friend, wouldn't have it any other way.<br/><br/> https://newciv.org/nl/newslog.php/__show_article/_a000506-000005/#com71925 Sun, 9 Jul 2006 16:54:36 UT https://newciv.org/nl/newslog.php/__show_article/_a000506-000005/#com71919 2006-07-09 07:39: comment by <a href="https://newciv.org/nl/newslog.php/_v119">i2i</a> on "rolling - 3":<br/>hank you all for your input.<br/><br/>1. e: free association (cotty's remark)<br/><br/>es, excellent point. ree association is important and the point here is less about "controlling" how people choose to read a post or what they choose to respond to with regard to the content of the post than it is about "protecting" the treads from abusive behavior. t is a delicate balance and your point is well taken.<br/><br/>2. e: ushman's comment:<br/>"ersonaly just think i2i needs to put a disclaimer/visable warning that you will be banished to the troll page. or whatever crime of negativity or irrevelence, anything that is below a set level, etc... would post in there, but 'm just not exatly clear on the topic."<br/><br/>he topic: <br/><br/>"ain's words have come to symbolize people's unwillingness to accept responsibility for the welfare of their fellows - their "brothers" in the extended sense of the term."<br/><br/>his intro leads to a speech by arack bama about "social arwinism" and the role of government.<br/><br/> think the topic is pretty clear.<br/><br/> is not the issue here. or is "negativity" - one is free to agree or disagree with the content of the post. am not a stickler for style, dont make people use spellcheckers, enjoy creative writing and humor just as much as the next person. he point is one of some semblance of "relevance" and "basic respect." s this rule is rather commonplace, dont believe that there is any real need to put a warning about this on my newslog, for the same reason as there is no need for a sign either in my living room warning visitors that they shouldnt piss on the floor. <br/><br/> realize, of course, that not all seemingly irrelevant comments are malicious in nature, so your point about the "roll page" is well taken. aybe something called "angencies" instead, like this <a href="http://www.newciv.org/nl/newslog.php/_v507//" id="posts_0x1_000506-000005_outside_link" target="_blank">here</a>, would be more appropriate. am not really trying to give a hard time to anyone. he interest is about encouraging dialogue not about suppressing it. he original idea was also "to offer an avenue for those interested in the topic which might be present in such or such comment independently of the context in which the comment was posted." ike a series of forking paths. n opportunity for a series of new threads independently of their relevance to the original posts from which they were sprung. nd a chance for an attempt at a genuine follow-up, assuming such follow up is really what the posters desire. ut can see how doing that on a newslog called rolling can be a problem, lol, so maybe angencies would be a more suitable name for it. https://newciv.org/nl/newslog.php/__show_article/_a000506-000005/#com71919 Sun, 9 Jul 2006 07:39:21 UT https://newciv.org/nl/newslog.php/__show_article/_a000506-000002/#com71917 2006-07-09 03:37: comment by <a href="https://newciv.org/nl/newslog.php/_v119">i2i</a> on "rolling - 2":<br/>his one comment by [name removed] had been redirected to this post on rolling just simply because of: <br/><br/>"its lack of clarity as to its purpose (because of style or content) or because of its apparent lack of relevance to the topic at hand from the thread on which it was originally posted by its author. " - and no other reason.<br/><br/>he decision was based on the content of the comment itself and no implication was intended as to the author of the comment being either a "wise-ass, a sophomore posing as a sage," or a "wise fool," as one would have it.<br/><br/>urthermore:<br/><br/>t is understood that "not all such comments are sophomoric in nature, nor the result of trolling, so this comment was posted here so as to offer an avenue for those interested in the topic or style which might be present in such or such comment independently of the context in which the comment was posted."<br/><br/>ore about this: <a href="http://www.newciv.org/nl/newslog.php/_v506/__show_article/_a000506-000005.htm#com71919" id="posts_0x1_000506-000002_outside_link" target="_blank">here</a>. https://newciv.org/nl/newslog.php/__show_article/_a000506-000002/#com71917 Sun, 9 Jul 2006 03:37:23 UT