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Xanadu 2012: Gulf Oil Leak Cap 2010 |
Category: Articles 24 comments 6 May 2010 @ 02:38 by swanny @70.65.31.24 : green bondSeems to me they should probably in their maintenance routine regularly shut these wells off completely to ensure the valves and equipment are always functional and operational as well as having the companies post a $1 billion green bond per deep and shallow sea well, to ensure the consumer and taxpayers don't end up picking up the final tab if and when they break or fail or etc etc.. 6 May 2010 @ 02:59 by swanny @70.65.31.24 : numbers Well it seems here are the numbers and variables: Oil pressure = up to 10,000 PSI Dome weight = 100 tonnes Sea Level pressure at sea level = 14.7 PSI Ocean Pressure at one mile = 2200 PSI (14.7 x 150) Gravitational adjustment = ? 6 May 2010 @ 04:23 by swanny @70.65.31.24 : blow by blowing rather than sucking in placing you allow the domes weight to factor in as it creates a shield of bubbles that allows its weight to be a factor around the dome that allows more control in the placing and even when placed it could dig the dome in deeper and burrow out a hole around the well bore in the ocean floor somewhat and then it could be shut of and the oil would thus naturally float up.. or then you could suction it.. seems to me anyway. 6 May 2010 @ 04:37 by swanny @70.65.31.24 : /// well I'll admit I don't really know but surely someone could test it, I do know that placing the dome on the well bore when the well bore itself is supposedly not even leaking won't solve much. 6 May 2010 @ 04:57 by swanny @70.65.31.24 : wet run Okay so, why don't they do a shakedown "wet run" in some shallow water say a thousand feet , pick a spot on the bottom and try to nail first, this way they could bring it back up if they may need to modify it somewhat, I know time is critical but how good can the thing be if it was only thought of and built in 3 days. We all knew this would happen one day but lets rather try to fix or jury rig it proper in the mean time. 6 May 2010 @ 10:34 by swanny @70.65.31.24 : oil head pressure so the dome = 336 (cubic meters) = 336 000 liters and the well is spewing 800,000 liters of crude that have been gushing out of the well daily so that well head is pumping out 33300 liters per hour so I suspect the well pressure is 2550 PSI or 2200 PSI + 2200 / 14.7 = 149.659864 any one care to double check my work? math isn't really my forte and I'm getting lost in the numbers here Well it seems here are the numbers and variables: Oil pressure = up to 10,000 PSI Dome weight = 100 tonnes or 200000 lbs Sea Level pressure at sea level = 14.7 PSI Ocean Pressure at one mile = 2200 PSI (14.7 PSI x 150 meters) Gravitational adjustment = ? the well head oil pressure in the dome is or would be at up to 3000 PSI ed 6 May 2010 @ 12:31 by swanny @70.65.31.24 : fart 2010/05/06/am/Thur/CA/MDT hmmm well it seems from the way and weight they've used in the design it will "naturally" pump to the surface if all the numbers add up and all the variables are correctly factored in that the downward pressure and weight of the dome and the ocean pressure is greater than the upward pressure of the oil depending on if its on the outside or inside of the dome. The problem and "DANGER" seems to occur when air bubbles get in the line from the oil field supply and due to friction and heat generated after traveling a mile under high pressure "EXPLODE" and IGNITE the oil when they reach the surface due to the pressure and distances involved. Thus my chief CONCERN then is whether or not is do they or did they build a shut off valve or safety valve in to the containment dome otherwise if another air bubble gets in the line it will probably just EXPLODE the contraption again. Or then again it may just Fart every time there an air bubble gets in but I doubt it. ed jonas 6 May 2010 @ 18:20 by bushman : Hmm Well I would assume if any bubbles got in the mix they would be methane of some sort of natural gas. And like a soda when you pop the top you will get some fizz. But as long as oxygen doesnt get mixed in just right, they can just vent it off, you know, ever see oil pumps and rigs in action? You will always see what is called a "flare" usual out and away from the rig, basicly you always see a fire burning out on the end of a pipe. In this case all they have to do is be able to pump and load as fast as the well is spewing. I dont have so many concerns, I mean we land stuff on Mars pretty accuratly now, I would hope we had the ability to drop a dime from 7 miles above the ocean and have it sink perfectly to its target. Is like docking in space, these things are going to be slow and methodical. Did you notice the sides on these domes have guseted steel flanges that come out horizantaly? They are so it cant sink too deep into the silt. And anyway Im sure they will have monitoring equipment, they will know right away if the well starts blowing gas intermitantly. 6 May 2010 @ 19:32 by swanny @70.65.31.24 : hope well we can hope bushman GetReal016 wrote: "My bet is that this contraption will 'float' when it fills with oil." ******************************************************************************************** tdot34 wrote:Posted 2010/05/06 at 2:31 PM ET Yea because the engineers didn't think of that.... There is a reason it weighs 114 tons, and its not because the design needs to fit around the non-functioning blow-off valve on the seabed. This "dome" also has a hole in the top so the oil can be siphoned to the surface and be used until the new well is drilled to tap into the reserve, and relieve the pressure and continue harvesting the oil. /////////////////////////////////// ed writes it wouldn't float but unless the seal is perfect it would still leak Well assuming that the pipe at the bore is 10 inches, 9 x 9 = 81 sq inches and given 8000 to 10000 PSI oil pressure equals 810000 PSI = 10000 x 81 at the bore and given the domes dead weight of 114 tonnes times 2000 lbs = 228000 lbs plus the weight or pressure of the water of and on 4 x 7 = 28 sq meters of the dome at 1 mile depth? 228000lbs + 700000lbs = 928000lbs dome and water weight ? > 810000 lbs? so since the downward 928000 lbs is greater than the upward pressure of the oil or 810000 lbs if the seal was perfect and tight it would suffice to cap it but it is unlikely so and given the oil pressure might be variable as well. ed 6 May 2010 @ 20:53 by bushman : Hmm A good engineer would have designed the dome to withstand 3 times more than is sufficiantly needed, its a rule of thumb, figure out as accuratly as possable what you will need, then X that by 3. 7 May 2010 @ 01:32 by swanny @70.65.31.24 : times 3... nice call bushman you nailed it.... 2010/05/06/pm/Thur/CA/MDT/7:30 yo world Re: 2010 Gulf Oil Ocean Well Blowout well I guess you're right folks for in order to equalize the upward pressure of the oil and cap the 10 inch pipe on the sea floor, the dome or cap would have to be the same size or volume inside but weigh at least 300 tonnes not just 114 tonnes. It was a nice try though. ed jonas 7 May 2010 @ 02:42 by swanny @70.65.31.24 : latest video video link = http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zdtF4rXhDL4 7 May 2010 @ 05:58 by bushman : Presure differental they could use 1/4 inch steel if they wanted to as long as the presure outside is within the range of what ever they are useing and the presure inside is within the same range. Its more like they plan to make it come to the surface close to the rate its being expelled, the reason they made them so stout is for when the presure is relived on the inside it must handel the crushing ocean above. Although I think Id of made them to cover more area around the leaks, and make it a bit easyer to land it on the target, but I think it will at least lower the rate that oil is spewing wildly out into the ocean. 7 May 2010 @ 09:54 by swanny @70.65.31.24 : specific gravity Jeabus wrote:Posted 2010/05/06 at 11:35 PM ETEd, Why do you think that it needs to be 300 tonnes? This is only to collect the oil, NOT cap the well completely... Think of it as a really big vacuum! ////////////////////////////////////// Okay just did a lab test, Had a sealed "plastic" container of oil in a full tub of water sank it to the bottom and, "it tried to rise to the surface and did rise to the surface." So proves oil is lighter than water check and that plastic is to light to keep the container at the bottom. so had a sealed "glass" container of oil in a full tub of water sank it to the bottom of a fairly shallow tub and though it did not try to rise as much I wonder if that would change if it was a mile down? Any theories? and does temperature maybe factor in too because I understand the water at this depth there is quite cold 5 degrees C? F? not sure if the glass container weighed more than the oil in my experiment as I don't have a scale but it definitely weighed more than the plastic container.. ed 7 May 2010 @ 18:31 by bushman : hmm well oil is deffinetly thicker when its cold, and Im sure everyone knows oil and water dont mix. Again I dont think weight has anything to do with it. Depending on the configuration and if your just capturing the oil, it would just neeed to be anchored to the bottom so currents cant move it that includes what ever currents the spewing oil is creating around the leak. Thier configuration looks by design to cover all those bases as well as reduce the amount of water they will have to seperate from what gets pumped into the tankers. The 100 ton device is far heavy enough to do what they want to do hopfully without anchors and devices to keep it from tipping over in currents. Vortex effects of water around a higher presure orffice, there is a point as you lower something over the outlet, vorticies form and creat a suction around the edges effectivly holding it down. You can try this with a garden hose and a bucket. Turn the hose on full blast with no nozzel, then just push the hose down with the presure pointing directly at the bottom of the bucket, you will find the vortex point when the hose sticks to the bottom of the bucket even though the hose is blasting, you will also notice as the bucket fills with water the distance the hose has to be to stick to the bottom lessenes, so you add more weight to hold it closer to the bottom. I use this technique to keep the water levels on our pond the same from the waterfall section and the pond section, being the waterfall basin cant drain as fast as its being filled, so I installed a bypass line that blasts a stream of water thru the outlet of the basin, this has an ajustable distance centered directly infront of the drain, I just slide this forward or back to ajust the water level remaing in the basin. So effectivly when I turn the bypass open all the way and slide it closer I can drain the basin compleetly forcing water from the main pond from running back into the waterfall basin and still have the waterfall running full bore. A wall of water held back 2ft deep with just a stream of water presure. So probably being the oil is very thick and cold they figured it would suck water and sand equaly if they couldnt get it to seat good on the ocean floor, but spose they could basicly use a 2 stage tanker setup, where the first tanker acts as a setteling pool then transfer the oil to another tanker, then they can pump out the excess water and debris from the first tanker. So it appers they will just keep all that to a minimum by useing small heavy domes. I mean just look at thier device, its small foot print made of reenforced concreet and steel. It seems to be covering all the bases of the "just in case senarios". 7 May 2010 @ 18:46 by swanny @70.65.31.24 : Complex sounds complex and you got a good handle on it good for you, may brain can't seem to grasp it though old war wound perhaps thanks though ed 7 May 2010 @ 18:54 by bushman : Too simple lol, sometimes things can be so simple that they just apper to be complex. :} 7 May 2010 @ 20:57 by bushman : Did you see this vid yet? http://rss.cnn.com/~r/rss/cnn_latest/~3/j8dmiQCKEKA/ 7 May 2010 @ 21:18 by swanny @70.65.31.24 : hmmm hmmmm well we'll see I guess everything unfolding as we speak it would seem thanks for the link ed 7 May 2010 @ 21:38 by swanny @70.65.31.24 : pics graphic visual pics gulf Mexico oil leak link = http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/interactive/2010/may/06/deepwater-horizon-oil-spill-beltra 7 May 2010 @ 22:03 by swanny @70.65.31.24 : video link video = http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t8acPbITk0c&feature=player_embedded 11 May 2010 @ 09:07 by swanny @70.65.31.24 : Hydraulic Plug 2010/05/11/am/Tue/CA/MDT/2:50 Yo BP Well for lack of a better current solution why not get these guys to design and engineer a big hydraulic plug to fit the pipe, the submersibles could fish the plug line into the spewing pipe and would have to have a hydraulic or oil pump to supply the 20000 PSI to seal it though. Once sealed though it the pipe and the plug line could be tapped off. just thinkin on the fly plug link = http://www.tradeindia.com/fp57448/Grip-Tight-Hydraulic-Test-Plug.html ed jonas 11 May 2010 @ 17:59 by bushman : Finders keepers rule, Ok, so all these fishermen have boats? You know, they could just go out there and scoop up oil and sell it on the open market, forget the shrimp for a few years and harvest black gold from the Gulf, I know Id be doing that, load after load, at lets say 50 bucks a barrel, holy crap Id be rich in just a couple days. Im mean have your wife and or kids stand there whining in the BP bread line, get your shrimp fishing asses out there and make some easy money as well as helping to clean up the mess. We are all going to pay for this one regaurdless of whos fault it is. Crap, Im almost tempted to sell everything and buy a boat myself, start my own oil company. Oh and dont give me that crap about "oh the oil will contaminate our fish holds", they sell all sorts of rubber or PVC pond liners cheeep on the net. Ya seems they could just jamb a plug in it, but I think the imposability of accualy inserting a plug is the problem there. Im thinking maybe the pipe size they used on thier dome was way too small, I mean obviously any methane or natural gas would be in a liquid state that far down, and instantly turn to icey snow the instant it decompresed out the well opening. Much bigger pipe on the dome, you would probably get better results if it wasnt setup as a closed system right off the bat. Just a really large membrain that stays dome shaped by the boyancy of the oil that collects under it, plenty of room for the methane to melt and still allow the oil to naturaly float to the surface in a confined way into a pool, then pump it into tankers parked around the pool of oil that wells up. There is no presure issue doing it this way since the presures inside will be the same as outside, just need to make sure the boyancy of the oil dosnt exceed whatever you have achoring the thing and that the tube to the surface isnt so small as to allow oil to accumulate and increase the boyancy of the overall device. 31 May 2010 @ 10:53 by scotty : Why Top Kill May Have Failed thought maybe this article will interest you Ed ;-) Why Top Kill May Have Failed .. http://www.theoildrum.com/node/6533 Other entries in Articles 23 Aug 2022 @ 09:55: Gravity battery ref 23 Aug 2022 @ 09:53: Gravity battery ???. 2 May 2022 @ 06:45: How to Get Quality Dofollow Backlinks 23 Nov 2021 @ 18:26: What is Linkbuilding 25 Jun 2021 @ 15:37: Longitude at sea? 24 Aug 2020 @ 12:42: Climate and ocean 24 Aug 2020 @ 12:37: Climate update Aug 2020 15 Mar 2020 @ 19:11: Hang in.. 29 Jul 2019 @ 16:12: Onward 28 Feb 2019 @ 14:41: Solar Neighborhood pic
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